NJ Saltwater Fisherman Forums

NJ Saltwater Fisherman => Fisheries Management => Topic started by: Skolmann on September 30, 2009, 02:26:27 PM

Title: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Skolmann on September 30, 2009, 02:26:27 PM
NOAA just announced 180 day closure of recreational black sea bass fishery in federal waters, effective Monday, 10/5.

NOAA announced today the temporary closure of the black sea bass recreational fishery in federal waters north of Cape Hatteras, N.C., for 180 days in response to recent landings data that showed recreational fishermen may catch more than double their annual quota by the end of the year. The closure will commence Monday, October 5, 2009.

Landings data and scientific analyses show recreational fishermen have reached their quota and could exceed their 1.14 million pound harvest limit by as much as 84 to 225 percent if the recreational fishery is not closed.

An independent body of federal and university scientists recently determined that the black sea bass stock has been rebuilt. However, both the scientists and the Science and Statistical Committee of the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council have cautioned against increasing fishing of this stock for several reasons, including the complex and poorly understood reproductive cycle, and limited information on life span and important habitats for this species. The Council recommends catch limits for black sea bass in federal waters.

NOAA understands and predicts changes in the Earth’s environment, from the depths of the ocean to the surface of the sun, and conserves and manages our coastal and marine
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Pfishingruven on September 30, 2009, 02:30:31 PM
 nosmly

NOAA Press Release (http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090930_seabass.html)

Unreal....love this quote in the article:

Quote
NOAA understands and predicts changes in the Earth’s environment, from the depths of the ocean to the surface of the sun, and conserves and manages our coastal and marine resources.

I don't even have a comment for that statement...I am laughing too hard rofla hhppy :'( :-X
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: IrishAyes on September 30, 2009, 02:46:21 PM
NOAA, the same freakin idiots who give us our wonderful weather forcasts.  >:(

These people have got to go.  nosmly
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt. Mike on September 30, 2009, 02:46:37 PM
That fn s@cks!!! What about the commercial guys?
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt. Carl on September 30, 2009, 03:13:20 PM
and from my understanding, any charter vessel holding a federal vessel permit must abide by federal laws any where they fish....inside 3 miles included....which is all charter and head boats....i need to confirm this crap rgmn rgmn rgmn rgmn rgmn rgmn rgmn rgmn rgmn rgmn rgmn rgmn
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: IrishAyes on September 30, 2009, 03:22:03 PM
That is the way I understand it too Capt Carl.  :P
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt. Carl on September 30, 2009, 03:23:53 PM
just spoke to brian hooker of N.O.A.A. SUSTAINABLE FISHERIES....yup, that was correct...any charter vessel cannot fish for sea bass even inside 3 miles if they hold a federal fisheries permit...ie..northeast multispecies permit....he said for further info contact the regional branch in gloucester mass, 978.281.9300
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: GregV on September 30, 2009, 03:31:17 PM
nosmly

NOAA Press Release (http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090930_seabass.html)

Unreal....love this quote in the article:

Quote
NOAA understands and predicts changes in the Earth’s environment, from the depths of the ocean to the surface of the sun, and conserves and manages our coastal and marine resources.

I don't even have a comment for that statement...I am laughing too hard rofla hhppy :'( :-X

NOAA's quote sounds pretty bizarre and delusional to me. Quite a stretch to consider the surface of the sun as part of the earth's environment. How can they claim to understand all these things and continue to fail miserably at predicting weather and fish stocks?
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Pfishingruven on September 30, 2009, 03:34:16 PM
How 'bout them bluefish ::)

 5hrug

 nosmly rgmn rgmn
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: shkbilly on September 30, 2009, 09:11:59 PM
Wait, I'm confused. Its closed in Federal water so I can still catch em up inside 3? Or no?
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: IrishAyes on September 30, 2009, 09:29:55 PM
Yes you can.
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt. Carl on September 30, 2009, 09:30:13 PM
yes, you can as long as your boat is not a  noaa federal permitted vessel....all charter and head boats are (or should be)so we have to abide by federal laws no matter if we are in or outside of the 3 mile mark. This also means we cannot fish on our own charter boats recreationally (meaning not on a charter but fishing for ourselves)because it is the vessel which holds the permit...not the owner of the vessel(we are just the "vessel operator"). if you are just a recreational fisherman fishing on a vessel which holds no permit, you can fish inside the 3 mile limit and keep the fish.....hope this clears it up for you.
Bottom line....charter and head boats cannot possess sea bass period.
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt. Mike on September 30, 2009, 10:03:16 PM
Glad I did not renew my permit...
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt -Jerry P on September 30, 2009, 10:13:33 PM
Glad I did not renew my permit...

 ;D >:D slt
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt. Mike on September 30, 2009, 11:16:22 PM
Capt. Jerry and Capt. Wayne feel free to come on down and fish the 3 mile line...  >:D
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: shkbilly on October 01, 2009, 07:17:32 PM
Jerry and Wayne you guys are welcome to come out with me, I won't even charge ya! ;)

Thanks for the clarification. That really really really sucks for alot of people on here and I feel for them. I hope despite this, they are still able to run a successful business.
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Kenny on October 01, 2009, 08:21:47 PM
Crappy 09 Fluke regs and now they pull this crap on sea bass with their " best available science"...
Not to mention the cost of fuel and now they want to charge us for a salt water fishing licence next year?

Less fish but more regulations, fees and licences

Can't make this sh*t up  nosmly
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt. Carl on October 01, 2009, 09:29:08 PM
Just wait....my guess is that Makos are next!
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt -Jerry P on October 02, 2009, 04:02:24 PM
yes, you can as long as your boat is not a  noaa federal permitted vessel....all charter and head boats are (or should be)so we have to abide by federal laws no matter if we are in or outside of the 3 mile mark. This also means we cannot fish on our own charter boats recreationally (meaning not on a charter but fishing for ourselves)because it is the vessel which holds the permit...not the owner of the vessel(we are just the "vessel operator"). if you are just a recreational fisherman fishing on a vessel which holds no permit, you can fish inside the 3 mile limit and keep the fish.....hope this clears it up for you.
Bottom line....charter and head boats cannot possess sea bass period.

Still trying to figure it all out myself but...

That is not entirely true from what i understand...a lot of charter capts i talked to do not have a federal permit...

If you are a back bay boat why do you need a fedral permit? If you are gonna fish within 3 miles...  Since ya cant for seabass and stripers past 3 miles and dont have to for blackfish no charters boats will have to go more than 3 offshore right?

Why have it?

Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: IrishAyes on October 02, 2009, 04:17:43 PM
I recently received this email. Does not say if federal permit is mandatory for charter boats.  5hrug

The NJ DEP Division of Fish and Wildlife is advising recreational anglers that the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) will be closing the recreational black sea bass fishery in federal waters (3 - 200 miles offshore) effective Monday, October 5, 2009, for the next 180 days.

New Jersey State waters (0 - 3 miles offshore) are still open for the recreational harvest of black sea bass with a possession limit of 25 fish and a minimum size limit of 12.5 inches. Also, even though State waters remain open for the black sea bass, party and charter boat operators with a Federal black sea bass permit are prohibited from harvesting black sea bass from both State and Federal waters as of the effective closure date.

Please see the NMFS press release at www.nefsc.noaa.gov/press_release/2009/News/NR0913/index.html on the NMFS website for more information regarding this closure.
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Hunter 2 on October 02, 2009, 04:43:13 PM
Man, This is nuts nts
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt -Jerry P on October 02, 2009, 05:05:24 PM
I recently received this email. Does not say if federal permit is mandatory for charter boats.  5hrug

The NJ DEP Division of Fish and Wildlife is advising recreational anglers that the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) will be closing the recreational black sea bass fishery in federal waters (3 - 200 miles offshore) effective Monday, October 5, 2009, for the next 180 days.

New Jersey State waters (0 - 3 miles offshore) are still open for the recreational harvest of black sea bass with a possession limit of 25 fish and a minimum size limit of 12.5 inches. Also, even though State waters remain open for the black sea bass, party and charter boat operators with a Federal black sea bass permit are prohibited from harvesting black sea bass from both State and Federal waters as of the effective closure date.

Please see the NMFS press release at www.nefsc.noaa.gov/press_release/2009/News/NR0913/index.html on the NMFS website for more information regarding this closure.

Right if ya got the permit ya cant fish for em... But ya probably should just turn it in a as a charter boat...

Everything we target from now to jan 1 can be caught within 3 miles
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: IrishAyes on October 02, 2009, 05:16:51 PM
I was fishing in Mass last year on a boat that recently got the permit. They did not have the permit the year before. I asked why they got the permit. They said the owner of the boat wanted to sell the fish they caught and needed the permit for that reason. Sounded to me like it was not mandatory except if you wanted to sell fish to the dealers.  5hrug
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt. Carl on October 02, 2009, 11:38:01 PM
these are a couple of listings on the nmfs site in regards to having the permits.....looks to me like it is not required to have it as a charter or party boat....but if you fish outside 3 miles for , blues ,sea bass, atlantic mackerel.....you are required to have it.

(ii) Party and charter vessels. All party or charter boats must have been issued and carry on board a valid party or charter boat permit to fish for, possess, or land Atlantic bluefish in or from the EEZ if carrying passengers for hire. Persons on board such vessels must observe the possession limits established pursuant to §648.164 and the prohibitions on sale specified in §648.14(q).

(ii) Party and charter boat permit. The owner of any party or charter boat must obtain a permit to fish for or retain black sea bass in or from U.S. waters of the western Atlantic Ocean from 35°15.3' N. lat., the latitude of Cape Hatteras Light, NC, northward to the U.S.-Canada border, while carrying passengers for hire.

so my question is.....it states "if carrying passengers for hire"....i would assume that if i take my boat out for pleasure i can then fish for them inside 3 miles.....this differs from what i was told by noaa on wed.
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: IrishAyes on October 02, 2009, 11:59:26 PM
Thanks for the research Capt Carl.  t^
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt. Carl on October 03, 2009, 12:00:46 AM
 t^

im just trying to figure this out like the rest of us! lol
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Great American Fisherman on October 03, 2009, 05:55:01 AM
I'm trying to understand something here.  I'm not looking to start an argument.

The RFA asks you for money.  They tell you if it was not for them, the fishing regulations would be worse.  Fluke closed before Labor Day.  Now we have no sea bass.  Here is my question.  Please tell me what is worse than this?  What is worse than this?
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Great American Fisherman on October 03, 2009, 06:03:01 AM
I copied this information from the Carolyn Ann III web site.  They are out of Barnegat Light, NJ.  It's information on how to contact some of the criminals in NJ politics.  We tried this two years ago with the fluke.  Hundreds of us wrote to Corzine and he never replied to anyone.  Maybe this will work,  Who knows.  I was told a letter writting campaign is going on to contact  Lautenberg.  How is that working out?  We lost sea bass.  Is ole Frank on board?  How about Chuck Schumer?  Mr. Sound Bite.  Did he weigh in on this?  Pallone wrote a letter to NOAA.  Maybe Pallone can get Obama to impose sanctions on NOAA.  Some of those get tough ones we put on Iran.

Here is the information.  People complain about these losers in government and still they vote them back in.



EMERGENCY ACTION REQUIRED NOW!!!
 
Sorry to take the current fishing report off this website but this afternoon something DEVASTATING has happened to YOUR RIGHT TO FISH FOR SEA BASS!!!! The National Marine Fish Service has voted to CLOSE SEA BASS FISHING FOR 6 MONTHS STARTING OCTOBER 5th. HOW STUPID IS THIS???? If you have been fishing with us recently you KNOW how many 12" fish we have thrown back. Literally 25-1. It is VERY important that YOU contact the following people at their telephone numbers but ESPECIALLY at the E Mail addresses listed below. It seems we are POLICED TO DEATH. To take away your right to fish and feed your family is non-understandable!! We thought this was AMERICA!!

First go to http://www.nefsc.noaa.gov/press_release/2009/News/NR0913/index.html. This will give you the decesion the BUBBLING BAFFONS have made. Next reach the following people at their telephone numbers and E Mail addresses listed. We personally would not re-elect ANYONE who supports this KANGAROO COURT (NMFS). This governmant agency should be DISBANDED!! Insufficient data (and they admit to this) and ancient reports do not tell the story about what is happening NOW!! The words MAY and COULD don't have much substance. Anyway, here are some people you MUST contact IMMEDIATELY.!!!

Assemblyman Brian E Rumph
asmrumph@njleg.org

Senator Christopher J Connors
senconnors@njleg.org

Assemblyman Daniel Vanpelt
asmvanpelt@njleg.org

Senator Andrew R Ciesla
senciesla@njleg.org

Assemblyman David W Wolfe
asmwolfe@njleg.org

Senator Frank Lautenberg
http://lautenberg.senate.gov/contact/

Senator Robert Menendez
http://menendez.senate.gov/contact/

Chief, Research Communications
teri.frady@noaa.gov

Communications Specialist
Fishery Policy and Regulations
marjorie.mooney-seus@noaa.gov

Also for the State of New Jersey you can go to http://www.state.nj.us/dep/easyaccess/indexfront.htm
Employee Directory. This will give you an alphabetical listing. Go to F for fish and wildlife reg. officers. It will also give you all the names of the bosses.

We know this is a lot of work. If some of the addresses give you a problem PLEASE work with us. We were just informed of the change at 3 PM this afternoon and this is the best we can do right now. This report will not be erased but will be added to as more information is obtained. Many people don't know that we are obligated by LAW to report our daily catch MONTHLY. Is there any better current information than fishing boats???? I don't think so scooter!!!! We have a FEDERAL PERMIT. Guess who that goes to? PLEASE HELP US AND PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS AS WELL!!!!!

Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt. Carl on October 03, 2009, 07:48:28 AM
Many people don't know that we are obligated by LAW to report our daily catch MONTHLY. Is there any better current information than fishing boats?Huh I don't think so scooter!!!! We have a FEDERAL PERMIT. Guess who that goes to? PLEASE HELP US AND PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS AS WELL!!!!!


That is a great statement.....he is referring to the blue log that you get with your federal permit...its called a V.T.R. (VESSEL TRIP REPORT)
and must be filled out during every trip...regardless of where you are fishing (state or fed waters)and you must record pretty much every fish you keep OR THROWBACK...even the mighty sea robin and bergall is accounted for on this report....then it is turned in by the 15th of each month for the previous months trips.
Whether captains fill it out or not, is their business but i try to fill mine out properly, as they tell us we are helping provide stock assessment data. i'm starting to second guess that information now.
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: IrishAyes on October 03, 2009, 07:54:40 AM
I would bet that information is sitting on the cold, damp basement floor of some federal building and was never even looked at.
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Fishin Dude on October 03, 2009, 09:54:59 AM
 Some scary quotes from the "Regulatory Impact Review (RIR) and Environmental Justice Reviews for a Temporary Rule Emergency Action to Close the 2009 Black Sea Bass Recreational Fishery in the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ)"

"It is expected that the EEZ closure will be replaced after the 180 day period has ended with appropriate 2010 recreational management measures (i.e., minimum fish size, fishing season, and possession limit)."

"Even after a closure of the EEZ occurs, additional landings above the established recreational harvest level may occur in state waters unless states follow suit and close their state water recreational black sea bass fisheries."

"It is quite possible that no recreational black sea bass fishery would be permitted in the EEZ during 2010 or that, at the minimum, very restrictive measures would be enacted to permit an abbreviated recreational fishery (i.e., short season duration with large minimum size and low possession limit)."

"Until such time that the precise overage is known, it is not possible to anticipate the degree of modification required for the 2010 recreational management measures nor is it possible to anticipate what the Council may recommend for such modification."

"The emergency action should not represent a change in relative satisfaction for participation in recreational fisheries because state-waters fisheries for black sea bass may continue to be open even after the EEZ is closed and anglers will still have opportunity to target other species in the EEZ. Thus, the overall participation levels in the fishery are not expected to change. Therefore, the emergency action is not expected to cause disproportionately high and adverse human health, environmental or economic effects on minority populations, low-income populations, or Indian tribes."
<'((((><

Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: CapBob on October 03, 2009, 10:00:15 AM
I was talking with a CO last night (known him a long time) he confirmed that a Charter/Party Boat that does not have a Federal Permit can fish within the 3 mile limit for Sea Bass.
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Fishin Dude on October 03, 2009, 10:18:34 AM
Party and charter boat permit. The owner of any party or charter boat must obtain a permit to fish for or retain black sea bass in or from U.S. waters of the western Atlantic Ocean from 35°15.3' N. lat., the latitude of Cape Hatteras Light, NC, northward to the U.S.-Canada border, while carrying passengers for hire.


If this is in fact the Federal Law, then those party & charter boats that do not have a permit were fishing illeagally, then why would they care about breaking more fishing laws ?  <'((((><
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: IrishAyes on October 03, 2009, 11:05:55 AM
Some scary quotes from the "Regulatory Impact Review (RIR) and Environmental Justice Reviews for a Temporary Rule Emergency Action to Close the 2009 Black Sea Bass Recreational Fishery in the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ)"

"Until such time that the precise overage is known, it is not possible to anticipate the degree of modification required for the 2010 recreational management measures nor is it possible to anticipate what the Council may recommend for such modification."

"The emergency action should not represent a change in relative satisfaction for participation in recreational fisheries because state-waters fisheries for black sea bass may continue to be open even after the EEZ is closed and anglers will still have opportunity to target other species in the EEZ. Thus, the overall participation levels in the fishery are not expected to change. Therefore, the emergency action is not expected to cause disproportionately high and adverse human health, environmental or economic effects on minority populations, low-income populations, or Indian tribes."
<'((((><




I like this one;
Until such time that the precise overage is known.
That will be forever because the NEVER have and NEVER will have a precise overage. They can't even count to ten let alone count fish if you ask me.

And the next quote is even more scary in that it shows they have no idea what the hell they are talking about. This the closure will not affect the participation level of fishing and it will not affect anyone.  nts nosmly rgmn rgmn rgmn
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Bucktail on October 03, 2009, 11:42:35 AM
I know it will affect the party boats that run those marathon offshore sea bass trips in the winter. :-\
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Pfishingruven on October 03, 2009, 12:29:50 PM
 nts nts rgmn rgmn

 :'(
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Great American Fisherman on October 03, 2009, 04:19:10 PM
On a personal note, you know what sucks?  I will be on vacation the last two weeks of October.  Eight minutes from The Carolyn Ann III in Barnegat Light.  Eight minutes.  I will now have to drive 100 miles a day to fish out of Point Beach or Belmar.  100 miles a day.

This won't happen next year.  I'm done spending my vacation dollars in NJ.  I'm going elsewhere.
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Pfishingruven on October 03, 2009, 04:28:12 PM
Unfortunately, this isn't specifically the State of NJ to blame.  I am not a big fan of this state, but this was a Federal Government issue that is affecting more than this state.

 nosmly
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt -Jerry P on October 03, 2009, 05:25:02 PM
Why would you have a federal permit if you fish from raritan bay...

You can catch blues and seabass within 3 miles

For mackerel?

It actually now just restricts you? no?
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Great American Fisherman on October 03, 2009, 05:31:04 PM
Phish,

Delaware has a more liberal blackfish and fluke season.  The totally open blackfish season there is on now. It opened September 27 I beleive. Fluke is still open.  Correct me if I am wrong, is New York blackfish open now?  My vacation money I hope will be spent elsewhere next year.  I just have to take it this year.  Too late to cancel.
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt. Carl on October 03, 2009, 05:39:03 PM
i see your point capt jerry,

but lets face it, i would not want to be restricted to 3 miles within the beach for those fish....u know raritan bay is dead as hell sometimes...and we have to run out to the mud bouy  for bluefish....and in april, may and june...there is a nice bottom mix out at the scotland....6.7 miles off the hook.

as a business, i would never restrict myself to have to stay inside 3 miles . thats why i got the permit in the first place
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt -Jerry P on October 03, 2009, 05:55:59 PM
i see your point capt jerry,

but lets face it, i would not want to be restricted to 3 miles within the beach for those fish....u know raritan bay is dead as hell sometimes...and we have to run out to the mud bouy  for bluefish....and in april, may and june...there is a nice bottom mix out at the scotland....6.7 miles off the hook.

as a business, i would never restrict myself to have to stay inside 3 miles . thats why i got the permit in the first place

i hear ya

But as of now (present)

we are give up the best fall bottomfishing for a few trips ling trips to scotland in april?

the whole rest of the year we caught our seabass, inside 3 miles (June- oct)

Blues have been on the rocks/bay all year

Just saying i am rethinking it i might rather be retsritced... than not able to fish at all

Trying to see about rules about turning it in  and if you can reapply for it in the new year?
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt. Carl on October 03, 2009, 06:50:20 PM
yeah i heat that....but i know damn well they wont let anyone turn in what they have  on that permit.....this is one big cluster f...

 rgmn rgmn rgmn
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: CaptTB on October 03, 2009, 08:29:18 PM
Ok folks, hold the presses.

Sorry for the delay, but we have been working on this issue for the last 2 weeks (yes, BEFORE the closure was announced) and since the announcement as you can imagine I have been kinda busy.

First, ANY party or charterboat that wishes to fish for Fluke, Scup, Sea Bass, Bluefish, Flounder, Ground fish or multispecies (see cod, pollock, hake, ling, whiting, etc.) outside the 3 mile line MUST have a permit. If you NEVER intend on fishing outside the 3 mile line then you do not need a party/charter permit.

As of Monday, ALL FISHING for sea bass by recreational fishermen will be prohibited outside the 3 mile line. No one, not private or party or charter boat fishermen will be allowed to land sea bass outside 3 miles.

If you are a federal permit holder, you MUST abide by the more stringent rule, REGARDLESS of where you fish. So, even fishing in the river for a species that is only closed outside 3 miles would be prohibited to a party/charter permit holder.


Unless you drop the Sea Bass endorsement on your permit.

Which many of us have already done.

This happened years ago with fluke and more recently with scup. As of this time, the endorsement can be added back to your permit at any time. (although who knows how long that will last)


Second:  THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE STATE OF NJ. Any letters and e-mails sent to our state officials is a waste of time, OUR STATE VOTED AGAINST CLOSING SEA BASS in state waters.

This was a federal action taken by the National Marine Fisheries Service and has absolutely nothing to do with the state. In fact, harassing the state about this mean yelling at the people who sided with the fishermen!

Lastly:  This is happening for several reasons, the most important of which is because we were given a quota for next year based on the information that the Sea Bass stock is overfished, overfishing is occurring and the stock is still in need of rebuilding.

As of THIS YEAR that is NO LONGER TRUE. The latest scientific information that came from the recent data poor workshop has declared that Sea Bass are currently at 103% of their rebuilt level, actually they have been for nearly a decade and the retrospective analysis for the last 10 years has been wrong, and that the stock IS NOT OVERFISHED.

However, the recently reauthorized Magnuson-Stevens Act states that the Council and Service may not set quotas higher than what the SSC (Science and Statistical Committee) dictates.

At the August MAFMC meeting the SSC gave their recommendation to set the quota at the same level as 2009 based on the information available. taht information was the previous data that said the stock was not rebuilt and was overfished. When asked if they used the new information the answer was NO.

Attempts to get the MAFMC to send Sea Bass back to the SSC and use the new information failed.

here is an excerpt from the recent JCAA press release: " This year, when it was time to set the quota for 2010, the black sea bass quota was set by the Scientific and Statistical Committee (SSC) before the Monitoring Committee of the MAMFC and ASMFC met. The SSC decided to go with status quo even though the latest approved stock assessment showed that the stocks were no longer being over fished. The Monitoring Committee met after the SSC and realized that the quota they set for 2009 was based on the condition that black sea bass was overfished and overfishing was taking place. With this new information, the Monitoring Committee recommended an increase in the quota. At the joint meeting, we questioned the SSC about whether or not they had considered the same new information discussed by the Monitoring Committee when they set the quota at status quo. The response was that they had not. I made a motion asking the Monitoring Committee and SSC to hold a conference call to discuss this issue and see if there was a possibility of increasing the quota based on the available information. After a long discussion, the MAMFC voted a 10/10 tie so the motion did not move forward. The excuse given by the Council Chairman and Vice Chairman was that this would set a bad precedent. What it showed me was the callousness of these individuals relative to the needs of the recreational and commercial fishing industries? This is a new process and mistakes will be made. Until we resolve the procedural matters, there should be no problem revisiting decisions in the best interest of all concerned. For 10 council members, it wasn't important to make sure all information and recommendations were considered before final decisions were made.
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt -Jerry P on October 03, 2009, 08:53:16 PM
As always Thanks Capt Tony

That answered exactly what i was thinking and wondering...
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Bucktail on October 03, 2009, 09:17:20 PM
Thank you for clearing up the confusion Captain! t^
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt. Mike on October 03, 2009, 09:26:11 PM
Thank you Capt. Tony  t^
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Pfishingruven on October 03, 2009, 10:17:08 PM
Thanks for the info Capt!

Unfortunately, it doesn't fix the problem for some.  GAF, I would be just as mad and angry as you are if my vacation was essentially ruined by a last quarter of the year closure rgmn!  Maybe the Stripers will be in full run by then and you can switch up your game plan and stay close to LBI 5hrug?  Good luck.

 :-\
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: CaptTB on October 04, 2009, 07:36:36 AM
Thanks for the info Capt!

Unfortunately, it doesn't fix the problem for some.  GAF, I would be just as mad and angry as you are if my vacation was essentially ruined by a last quarter of the year closure rgmn!  Maybe the Stripers will be in full run by then and you can switch up your game plan and stay close to LBI 5hrug?  Good luck.

 :-\

I'd argue it doesn't fix a damn thing! There are several courses of action that are underway and another that may happen next week, but in the end it will be what it will be. The only thing I can tell people is those of us that fight these fights are fighting this one with the same effort and determination we always have. Your support is appreciated, but we will fight regardless of who fights with us or against us, as we always have.

Hopefully....... more to come on this topic shortly.
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: HutchJr on October 05, 2009, 12:28:36 PM
The Great American Fisherman and I have had a couple of email conversations – he seems hell bent on attacking the RFA as if we’re responsible for the fact that our president has appointed a former Pew fellow to head up NOAA (and has hired two former Pew staffers to sit in NOAA administrative positions).

It’s nearly impossible for a NJ gun owner to carry a registered handgun in this state; is that the fault of the NRA?  Or perhaps the NRA has helped ensure that law-abiding New Jersey citizens are allowed to own a handgun whatsoever.

I’d ask folks to visit the RFA homepage – in three different news sections on the homepage are answers in part to “why” we are suffering in the recreational community, and “what” the RFA is doing about it presently.  There’s strength in numbers and we need unity to attack the preservationists who are jamming an agenda down our throats. 

Visit www.joinrfa.org – sorry, I don’t have time to argue about specifics; I didn’t vote for all the legislators currently holding office, but I know they’re the ones I have to go to for help.  RFA is working with business owners and anglers from Maine to the Carolinas in an effort to get something going with this ridiculous closure, and I hope you all can help.

NOAA IGNORES INPUT FROM RECREATIONAL FISHING COMMUNITY
“FATALLY FLAWED” DATA USED TO KEEP AMERICA FROM FISHING

As reported in the Asbury Park Press of New Jersey on October 2, the Recreational Fishing Alliance (RFA) is exploring legal options to block a federal shutdown of the black sea bass fishery along the Eastern Seaboard.  "This is unprecedented, absolutely unprecedented," RFA’s Jim Donofrio told the Press just hours after the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced its intention to close the fishery in federal waters of the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) from Cape Hatteras, NC north to the Hague Line in Maine beginning Monday, October 5 for a period of 180 days. 

NOAA’s decision to immediately close the sea bass fishery is based on the “best available information” coming from the recreational harvest surveys for 2009 which shows that recreational fishermen “may have” overharvested their allowable catch this season.  “It’s abuse on the part of the federal government to use this data for a complete shutdown,” Donofrio said, explaining that a precautionary approach would’ve been emergency bag limit restrictions, not a complete closure.  “NOAA has really showed their hand on this decision, making it quite clear of their disdain for our recreational industry,” Donofrio added.

The RFA points out that NOAA is basing its decision to close the fishery for the next six months on the latest trends coming from the Marine Recreational Fishing Statistical Surveys (MRFSS), a survey methodology called “fatally flawed” in a report by the National Research Council (NRC).  The RFA points to a position paper on their homepage at www.joinrfa.org as detailing the “serious flaws” in MRFSS according to the NRC report.  The congressional mandated peer review said specifically in 2006 that there were “inadequate analysis methods that need to be addressed immediately,” yet three years later the data is still being used as gospel harvest information on important coastal fisheries like summer flounder, scup and sea bass. 

In a letter to James Balsinger, Acting Assistant Administrator of the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) U.S. Representative Frank Pallone, senior member of the House Natural Resources Committee, and fellow New Jersey coastal congressman John Adler. said an emergency shutdown will hurt coastal economies at a difficult time, and insists there’s no need to take such drastic action on a rebuilt fishery such as sea bass. “We believe that using the Marine Recreational Fishing Statistical Survey (MRFSS) as the only tool in determining the shutdown of a fishery is severely flawed,” the New Jersey Congressmen said, while adding “in light of the fact that MRFSS is not the most accurate way to measure catch levels, NMFS should pursue new assessments that are more concise. The review should include industry data that can provide an index of fishing activity.”

While the NRC has previously stated that industry data like fuel sales, tax records, marine receipts or even NOAA’s own weather data should be used at least to help validate the MRFSS data, the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) through NOAA is still incapable or unwilling to recognize this information.  “You’ll see some conservation groups rally around closures like these based on the use of what’s called the best available science, but clearly science isn’t being recognized as some scientists have said it should,” said Donofrio.  “NOAA’s decision on black sea bass shows utter disdain for the fishing industry and blatantly ignores the findings from the National Academy of Sciences.”

RFA is currently collecting input from throughout the industry from New England through down through Carolinas, and is hoping to lead the charge for a federal injunction to stop the closure.  However, fishing advocates have acknowledged that it’s going to be a tough week of rallying for support, and there may be no way to protect against the emergency closure taking place on Monday.  While coastal waters from 0 to 3 miles will remain open for the sea bass fishery next week, those federal permit holders will be forced to immediately stop the harvest of sea bass.   

“We have to make sure that NMFS never does this again,” said Ray Bogan, legal counsel for the United Boatmen, a NY/NJ party and charter boat organization.  Bogan said that NOAA’s decision to use preliminary, as yet incomplete data from the recreational surveys from 2009 is an unheralded action on behalf of the federal fisheries service.  “This takes MRFSS even one step further than we’ve ever seen, as it uses the bad data before it’s even finished being compiled.”

Bogan points out that MRFSS data from March and April of this past season indicates that the private fishing fleet actually outfished the for-hire sector, a near impossibility considering that black sea bass are still at the offshore grounds at that time of year, from 30 to 50 miles from nearly any coastal inlet and most recreational boat owners have not even put their boats in for the season at that time. 

“We can all agree that sustainable fisheries are the most important goal.  However, to continue this assault on recreational fisheries with minimal results is not acceptable,” the Pallone/Adler letter concluded.

RFA is hoping to they can get enough buy-in from the for-hire sector and tackle industry within the next 3 to 5 days to move forward with attempts to get an emergency injunction, but recognize that the industry is already reeling from serious loss of business due to NOAA’s ever-tightening noose of regulatory efforts on other fisheries including summer flounder and scup.  “The fall sea bass fishery is a significant part of my business,” said Clark Evans from Old Inlet Bait and Tackle in Indian River, DE.  Evans, like most other tackle shop owners from New England through the Mid Atlantic region said sea bass are a sustaining part of the local business during times when summer flounder season is closed or other species like striped bass simply aren’t available.

“We have shops and captains we represent who were hoping to make up a couple of lost dollars through the next holiday season on a healthy and robust fall and winter sea bass fishery, so money’s not just tight, it’s just not there,” said Donofrio.  “Our new NOAA administrator has not only circumvented the management process and ignored the input from our industry, but it’s as if the Administration has turned her back entirely on the Bill of Rights and the 10th Amendment.” 

RFA has sent an official letter to Secretary of Commerce Gary Locke on behalf of members asking that MRFSS “not be used as the basis for real-time monitoring or in season adjustments to the recreational sector.”  Download letter at www.joinrfa.org/press/seabasslocke.pdf

Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Capt -Jerry P on October 05, 2009, 02:22:10 PM
The Great American Fisherman and I have had a couple of email conversations – he seems hell bent on attacking the RFA as if we’re responsible for the fact that our president has appointed a former Pew fellow to head up NOAA (and has hired two former Pew staffers to sit in NOAA administrative positions).

It’s nearly impossible for a NJ gun owner to carry a registered handgun in this state; is that the fault of the NRA?  Or perhaps the NRA has helped ensure that law-abiding New Jersey citizens are allowed to own a handgun whatsoever.

I’d ask folks to visit the RFA homepage – in three different news sections on the homepage are answers in part to “why” we are suffering in the recreational community, and “what” the RFA is doing about it presently.  There’s strength in numbers and we need unity to attack the preservationists who are jamming an agenda down our throats. 

Visit www.joinrfa.org – sorry, I don’t have time to argue about specifics; I didn’t vote for all the legislators currently holding office, but I know they’re the ones I have to go to for help.  RFA is working with business owners and anglers from Maine to the Carolinas in an effort to get something going with this ridiculous closure, and I hope you all can help.

NOAA IGNORES INPUT FROM RECREATIONAL FISHING COMMUNITY
“FATALLY FLAWED” DATA USED TO KEEP AMERICA FROM FISHING

As reported in the Asbury Park Press of New Jersey on October 2, the Recreational Fishing Alliance (RFA) is exploring legal options to block a federal shutdown of the black sea bass fishery along the Eastern Seaboard.  "This is unprecedented, absolutely unprecedented," RFA’s Jim Donofrio told the Press just hours after the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced its intention to close the fishery in federal waters of the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) from Cape Hatteras, NC north to the Hague Line in Maine beginning Monday, October 5 for a period of 180 days. 

NOAA’s decision to immediately close the sea bass fishery is based on the “best available information” coming from the recreational harvest surveys for 2009 which shows that recreational fishermen “may have” overharvested their allowable catch this season.  “It’s abuse on the part of the federal government to use this data for a complete shutdown,” Donofrio said, explaining that a precautionary approach would’ve been emergency bag limit restrictions, not a complete closure.  “NOAA has really showed their hand on this decision, making it quite clear of their disdain for our recreational industry,” Donofrio added.

The RFA points out that NOAA is basing its decision to close the fishery for the next six months on the latest trends coming from the Marine Recreational Fishing Statistical Surveys (MRFSS), a survey methodology called “fatally flawed” in a report by the National Research Council (NRC).  The RFA points to a position paper on their homepage at www.joinrfa.org as detailing the “serious flaws” in MRFSS according to the NRC report.  The congressional mandated peer review said specifically in 2006 that there were “inadequate analysis methods that need to be addressed immediately,” yet three years later the data is still being used as gospel harvest information on important coastal fisheries like summer flounder, scup and sea bass. 

In a letter to James Balsinger, Acting Assistant Administrator of the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) U.S. Representative Frank Pallone, senior member of the House Natural Resources Committee, and fellow New Jersey coastal congressman John Adler. said an emergency shutdown will hurt coastal economies at a difficult time, and insists there’s no need to take such drastic action on a rebuilt fishery such as sea bass. “We believe that using the Marine Recreational Fishing Statistical Survey (MRFSS) as the only tool in determining the shutdown of a fishery is severely flawed,” the New Jersey Congressmen said, while adding “in light of the fact that MRFSS is not the most accurate way to measure catch levels, NMFS should pursue new assessments that are more concise. The review should include industry data that can provide an index of fishing activity.”

While the NRC has previously stated that industry data like fuel sales, tax records, marine receipts or even NOAA’s own weather data should be used at least to help validate the MRFSS data, the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) through NOAA is still incapable or unwilling to recognize this information.  “You’ll see some conservation groups rally around closures like these based on the use of what’s called the best available science, but clearly science isn’t being recognized as some scientists have said it should,” said Donofrio.  “NOAA’s decision on black sea bass shows utter disdain for the fishing industry and blatantly ignores the findings from the National Academy of Sciences.”

RFA is currently collecting input from throughout the industry from New England through down through Carolinas, and is hoping to lead the charge for a federal injunction to stop the closure.  However, fishing advocates have acknowledged that it’s going to be a tough week of rallying for support, and there may be no way to protect against the emergency closure taking place on Monday.  While coastal waters from 0 to 3 miles will remain open for the sea bass fishery next week, those federal permit holders will be forced to immediately stop the harvest of sea bass.   

“We have to make sure that NMFS never does this again,” said Ray Bogan, legal counsel for the United Boatmen, a NY/NJ party and charter boat organization.  Bogan said that NOAA’s decision to use preliminary, as yet incomplete data from the recreational surveys from 2009 is an unheralded action on behalf of the federal fisheries service.  “This takes MRFSS even one step further than we’ve ever seen, as it uses the bad data before it’s even finished being compiled.”

Bogan points out that MRFSS data from March and April of this past season indicates that the private fishing fleet actually outfished the for-hire sector, a near impossibility considering that black sea bass are still at the offshore grounds at that time of year, from 30 to 50 miles from nearly any coastal inlet and most recreational boat owners have not even put their boats in for the season at that time. 

“We can all agree that sustainable fisheries are the most important goal.  However, to continue this assault on recreational fisheries with minimal results is not acceptable,” the Pallone/Adler letter concluded.

RFA is hoping to they can get enough buy-in from the for-hire sector and tackle industry within the next 3 to 5 days to move forward with attempts to get an emergency injunction, but recognize that the industry is already reeling from serious loss of business due to NOAA’s ever-tightening noose of regulatory efforts on other fisheries including summer flounder and scup.  “The fall sea bass fishery is a significant part of my business,” said Clark Evans from Old Inlet Bait and Tackle in Indian River, DE.  Evans, like most other tackle shop owners from New England through the Mid Atlantic region said sea bass are a sustaining part of the local business during times when summer flounder season is closed or other species like striped bass simply aren’t available.

“We have shops and captains we represent who were hoping to make up a couple of lost dollars through the next holiday season on a healthy and robust fall and winter sea bass fishery, so money’s not just tight, it’s just not there,” said Donofrio.  “Our new NOAA administrator has not only circumvented the management process and ignored the input from our industry, but it’s as if the Administration has turned her back entirely on the Bill of Rights and the 10th Amendment.” 

RFA has sent an official letter to Secretary of Commerce Gary Locke on behalf of members asking that MRFSS “not be used as the basis for real-time monitoring or in season adjustments to the recreational sector.”  Download letter at www.joinrfa.org/press/seabasslocke.pdf



Thanks for the Info

Justed talked and had a good conversation with John From RFA and He said they are working Very hard with the United boatsmen and other organizations to fix this unfair mess...

But they need help now more than ever!!!

Pass it along!!!
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Fishin Dude on October 05, 2009, 08:30:45 PM
What kind of help ? Letters, E-Mails,CASH ??  If this infromation was available 2 weeks ago to some privileged groups, should they not have sought help from the masses then? <'((((><
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Great American Fisherman on October 05, 2009, 09:05:31 PM
First, Thank You Fishin Dude.

Second:  That RFA guy trashes me and said I trashed him.  All i said is "RFA asks for money".  They do.  So does the United Way.  So does The Imus Ranch for Kids with Cancer and so does Jerry Lewis.  Then "RFA tells you if it was not for them, things would be worse".  They do say that.  Their members say that.  Then I asked my question.  "What is worse than this".  To me, the closure of sea bass is the worst possible deal.  The worst.  Now the RFA will tell me, things could be worse than this?  What is that?  Please tell me what is worse than the sea bass closure.  Instead of airing your personal dislike for me on a public forum, just answer the question.  Sea Bass is closed and the stock is re-built to 103%.  What is worse than this?

Third:  How is the  Lautenburg letter writing campaign going?  Is he going to tell NOAA to reverse this?   How about Chuck Schumer.  Is he on board? 

Fourth:  Fishin Dude, you bet and the first round is on me!!!!




Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: Fishin Dude on October 05, 2009, 09:23:32 PM
You and I need to get together for a beer!  chrz chrz chrz <'((((><
Title: Re: Sea Bass Closure.
Post by: NJHEMIRT on October 08, 2009, 10:44:30 PM
It is sad that they are killing business in this state with these absurd regulations.  All based on some guesses from a group that would probably love to see all fishing stopped!  How can they expect charters and party boats that have been here for generations to survive?  And the poor angler trying to occasionally pick up some fish for the table with a rod and reel has to catch huge fluke in a short season, or take home 1 blackfish...while the draggers can keep "bycatch" as the scoop up everything!  ugh!