NJ Saltwater Fisherman Forums

NJ Saltwater Fisherman => Fisheries Management => Topic started by: Hotrod on March 28, 2010, 12:49:15 PM

Title: Catch Shares
Post by: Hotrod on March 28, 2010, 12:49:15 PM
Can we get a little more info on this?  and your thoughts.
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: IrishAyes on March 28, 2010, 12:55:35 PM
Pay to Play. The rich will eventually be the only ones fishing if it goes to this.

As I understand it you will be paying for an amount of fish that you can land. It started as a commercial fishing thing and will come to the rec fishery in time. Not a good thing.  :P
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Pfishingruven on March 28, 2010, 02:01:05 PM
 whs

The actual basis of catch shares is not a bad thing in my opinion.  What is bad is the politics and money that come into play and go hand and hand with it.  Pretty much like every program that the government outlines...

My understanding of Catch Shares is that instead of a season based upon speculation, like we currently have, the season is opened and is closed when the quota is met.  This can make for a long season when quotas are not met or a very short season when fishing is good.

For Recreational Fisheries, I don't think this is a good option.  There is really no good way to plan your season and since the only money made is when a season is open, this could severely limit income to Charters and Headboats.  It could also make saltwater fishing for a "weekend warrior" almost non existent.  I don't know how much Pay to Play would come into affect here, but if there is money to be made, make no doubts about it...you will have to pay.  It is certainly not the best option for Recreational Fishermen/women.  However, the Environmentalists and the NOAA Fisheries Administrator Lubchenco love this option.  The good thing is right now, Catch Shares are optional tools and not mandated.  

For the Commercial Sector, it is almost 100% pay to play.  This type of management is a good thing, if you have the money to play and have been allotted a share.  The Catch Share allows the boats to fish at their own pace.  No "Mother, Jugs and Speed" to the fishing grounds with your fleet.  It also reduces bycatch, keeps the market value of fish steady or higher and is more profitable all around.  I think the best example of this is the Alaskan Crab Fishery.  They are on a Catch Share.  Most people who have bought into this, sell their shares off to the bigger boats.  This is Pay to Play at it's best.  There is no way that a "smaller" fisherman can compete and make a living by fishing.  So the rich fishermen love it and the lowly fisherman trying to make a living probably hates it...but it has stabilized the fishery and made it much more profitable for all those involved!

Just my own opinion on what I have read.  I am interested in reading what those that are very involved in our fisheries have to say.

 TT^
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Noworries2009 on March 28, 2010, 02:27:07 PM
If I remember correctly, "catch shares"  and their purpose is to limit entry into a fishery and to allow the holder"the right to sell" as they leave the business. AS per the DC rally, most believe that this will signal the end. MPA's and catch shares will end recreational  fishing in our waters.  nosmly
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Bucktail on March 28, 2010, 02:34:55 PM
Catch Shares as a Method to End Overfishing

The Issue
The Obama Administration has placed significant priority on the use of catch shares as a tool for ending overfishing in commercial fisheries. Catch share programs set a biologically based annual catch limit for each fish stock and allocate a specific portion of that catch limit to entities such as commercial fishermen and cooperatives or communities. When designed correctly, catch share programs help eliminate the commercial race to fish, reduce overcapacity and by-catch and improve economic efficiency.

The American Sportfishing Association (ASA) has serious concerns about catch share systems. In mixed stock fisheries where there is a large and growing recreational sector, exclusive fishing rights proposals maximize benefits to the commercial fishing industry while ignoring the participation and economic contribution of recreational fishing, which totals $80 billion and provides over half a million jobs – an economic impact equal to or greater than commercial fishing economic impacts.

This can cause a challenge for future allocation discussions, as well as negatively impact the recreational fishing quota. Allocations throughout the country are decades old, and do not always accurately reflect present day needs and contribution of the sectors. In addition, when shares are provided to commercial entities free of charge, the federal government is giving away public resources for private financial gain.

Our Goal

ASA supports the following principles related to a national catch share system:

    * There should be a thorough analysis of the impacts on all the sectors in the fishery, especially the impacts on recreational fishing, prior to the initiation of a catch share system.
    * Procedures must be established for the regional councils to review the current allocations. In a mixed-use fishery, the councils should be required to examine the existing allocation to determine if it is consistent with the best use of the resources for the nation as a whole. If the allocation is deemed to not be in the best interest of the nation as a whole in terms of economic contribution of the sectors, a reallocation should be conducted by the regional council.
    * All quota share systems should be based only on the percentage of the commercial catch.
    * It should not be the policy of the federal government to “give away” access and public resources for commercial profit.

Background
Catch shares designed for federal fisheries are authorized by the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act (MSA). The MSA is the principal law for managing federal marine fisheries in the United States, and requires fishery managers to end overfishing and rebuild all overfished stocks. Catch share programs have been used in the U.S. since 1990 and now include 13 different fisheries from Alaska to Florida managed by six different U.S. Fishery Management Councils. Four additional U.S. fisheries are in the process of adopting a catch share program over the next year.

On December 10, 2009, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) released a draft national policy that promotes the use of catch shares for federal fisheries. The proposal encourages the consideration and adoption of catch shares by regional fishery managers wherever appropriate in fishery management and ecosystem plans. The proposal also acknowledges that catch shares may not be the best management option for every fishery or sector. The draft policy does not require the use of catch shares in any particular fishery or sector, but promotes and encourages the consideration of catch shares as a means to achieve the goals of sustainable fishery management. To view NOAA’s draft catch share policy click here or go to www.nmfs.noaa.gov.


http://www.asafishing.org/government/catchshares.html (http://www.asafishing.org/government/catchshares.html)
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Jeffish on March 28, 2010, 03:27:52 PM
 :headscra:
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Tacklebox Joe on March 28, 2010, 05:37:54 PM
 :headscra: :headscra:
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Hotrod on March 28, 2010, 05:41:15 PM
Yea the reason I brought it up... :headscra:
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Noworries2009 on March 28, 2010, 06:51:38 PM
It's a smoke screne for "when we're finished so are you".I don't trust any of this. I think most know that NOAA and NMFS are not our friends and mean to abolish fishing as we know it.
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Pfishingruven on March 28, 2010, 06:55:38 PM
 whs

The very idea of Catch Shares was created and funded mainly by anti fishing environmentalists.  This is one of their main lobbying points and key ways to save and rebuild fisheries.  Of course anti fishing organizations want to control who, what, where, when, why, how and how many!

IMO, this is something we really need to stand up against if it ever comes around in NJ...or just hang up your rods when it does!

With that being said, if you read up on Catch Shares and the fundamental principles of it, it is really not a bad thing.  It really has a lot more pros than cons on paper and until you take into account how it will be orchestrated and implemented.  In the case of Recreational Fishermen/women having to "buy" a quota...it would certainly end fishing as we know it.

However, there are other ways it could be setup and used that would not completely shut down Recreational Fishing.  The Striped Bass Bonus Permit Program is a fairly good example of Catch Shares on a much smaller level(and not specifically called that).  You pay to take an extra Striped Bass...you have to report it and buy another permit.  If too many fish have been caught and the quota has been exceeded, the State can end that program and not issue any additional Permits.  The possibilities of how it could be used are endless...that is the part that makes it so dangerous to Recreational Fishing!  Either way, it is less than ideal at best for any type of Catch Shares in Recreational Fishing :-\.

 5hrug
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: IrishAyes on March 28, 2010, 07:50:00 PM
The way I see catch shares is - you pay 'X' amount for a share of the quota. Now, if you can not afford 'X' amount YOU DO NOT FISH because you did not pay to do so!!! 

The guy with the big bucks can buy many, many shares.

It's as simple as that when you get down to brass tacks.
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Capt. Joe G on March 28, 2010, 07:56:17 PM
Goverment controlling your freedoms .. plain and simple   Welcome to a Communist Country in the making!!

How do you like your change Now!!!
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Capt. Birch on March 28, 2010, 08:54:13 PM
The way I see catch shares is - you pay 'X' amount for a share of the quota. Now, if you can not afford 'X' amount YOU DO NOT FISH because you did not pay to do so!!!  

The guy with the big bucks can buy many, many shares.

It's as simple as that when you get down to brass tacks.
.  

I have to disagree with most of your statement. You do not say anything about catch history or any number of other factors. I do not claim to be very knowlegable on this subect but as a subscriber to National Fisherman for over 25 years I have been see and reading about IFQ for that long. Is the guy with the" the big bucks " controlling all  fisheries that have already had them for years? In the April issue of the National Fisherman( the most read pro commercal fishing mag in the US) on page 14 in dock talk  there is an article by David Krebs that is very very pro IFQ and catch share .Strange that the most pro commercial fishing publication in the US would run a pro catch share article.
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Capt. Birch on March 28, 2010, 09:01:18 PM
Man it's hard to post with an phoneLol
this is  an add on to my above post. While I do not consider myself pro catch share of IFQ. I am open to new and better management tools for each fishery. If every body happy with the past management there would be no need for change or improvment
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Capt. Birch on March 28, 2010, 09:10:34 PM
Goverment controlling your freedoms .. plain and simple   Welcome to a Communist Country in the making!!

How do you like your change Now!!!
.
 
 What freedoms are you refering too? The commercial sector already controls 49 percent of the seabass and 60 percent of the fluke . Catch shares and IFQ will only cut the pie they already have in differnt pieces
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: IrishAyes on March 28, 2010, 09:53:47 PM
I read that article as I also subscribe to the National Fisherman. As a side note I will say I like the magazine change in size much better than the old size.  TT^

I don't know a lot about the commercial fishery to comment on it. I was speaking on the rec side of catch shares.

However, about the commercial fishery and catch shares.

Isn't there a limited entry for the commercial industry?

Isn't there so many licenses to go around and no one else can get in unless they buy someone else's license?

When they have their 'allocation fixed and can not go out because of illness or a boat break down they can sell their share to someone else. (This was in the article) Are they limited to the price they can ask for their share? Or can they sell it for whatever the market will bear?

These give me my concerns with the rec guys. Will there be a limited entry? Will I be bidding against a dockmate who happens to have more money than me? Will I be restricted to enjoy my sport because I caught too many fish yesterday?

Perhaps I am way off base of what I think catch shares is.  5hrug If I am wrong will someone please tell us all what is correct.
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Capt. Birch on March 28, 2010, 10:25:21 PM
Irish great post! I think we share many of the same concerns as they concern the recreational side. I have not seen one fact based report for  individual catch shares for rec angler. If somebody has a link stating other wise please kindly post. I kinda view the recreational side as one group (charter party rec) and not as individual hence no seperate season . Our 40 percent of the fluke is already a type of quota for our group....../The Gulf  has had a limited entry for charter and party boats for a few years(bottomfish). This is a great site we can exchange opinions and better inform ourself   
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: The dropoff on March 29, 2010, 07:20:05 AM
Say no to catch Shares.  If we go this way we are in big trouble.  Having to pay to get a quote for a rec guy is  nts.  Just remember this one thing.  Some of the groups that do not want us to fish have lots of $$$$$ and could come in and buy and keep everyone off the water.  Once they own the quota they can do what ever they want to with it.  Plan and simple.  I know Capt. TB is on this site and maybe he can lay out the fact on this on.

Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: CaptTB on March 29, 2010, 08:34:47 AM
The fact that National Fishermen ran a pro article means nothing, they run pro and con articles all the time. For every "pro" commercial fisherman you can find I will find you two who are "con" to catch shares. The vast majority I work with (on alllevels of fisheries management) are against them.

The simple facts are that the fishery, whatever fishery it is, will be cut down in size with catch shares.

In all deference to Birch and Irish, the key part of catch shares is CONSOLIDATION. Fewer fishermen, fewer boats, finite resources divided to the survivors who are monitored up the ass.

Now when it comes to the recreational sector, you (meaning NMFS) can take your catch shares and shove them up your collective asses. Plain and simple it is the commodification of our natural resources for sale to the highest bidder.

Why would EDF (one of the biggest proponents of CS) hold an investor conference last year (april '09) to discuss the "Investment benefits and potential of catch shares"??

Here's some light reading for you all..
Gloucester Times (http://www.gloucestertimes.com/fishing/local_story_231223436.html)

Lubchenco Holds Firm on May 1 Catch Share Date (http://www.gloucestertimes.com/punews/local_story_066225747.html)
This has got to be my favorite quote:

"At the meeting with fishermen, Lubchenco was asked by Capt. Orlando to define a "catch share."

Her answer: A negotiable stock that fishermen can sell as they go out of business, allowing them to exit with some cash."
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Hotrod on March 29, 2010, 09:03:19 AM
 nosmly  Thanks Capt. Tony t^

But this wouldn't really affect the Recreational Fisherman.. would it?
 bnqt
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Noworries2009 on March 29, 2010, 09:43:43 AM
THe way I look at this is "our"government is taking ownership of the oceans and "selling" shares back to the highest bidder. How long will it take to change allocations to push us out? THe way it is now seasons, size and bag limits are very restrictive. THis will be more restrictive ! Add MPA's and you get the idea what their goal is.
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: CaptTB on March 29, 2010, 09:59:05 AM
But this wouldn't really affect the Recreational Fisherman.. would it?
Catch shares  WERE a commercial tool. The head of NOAA herself (The Assistant Administrator's BOSS) has said that while voluntary, catch shares MUST be available as a tool for both commercial AND recreational fisheries. The "Oceans of Abundance" report, which this new push for catch shares is based on, SPECIFICALLY talks about catch  shares for the recreational sector.

US Congressman Rush Holt, one of the panelists of the Oceans of Abundance conference told me and capt. Ron and Henry TO OUR FACES with his scientific staffer ON THE PHONE that catch shares were most certainly for the commercial AND the recreational sector.

This quote is from the December 10, 2009 NOAA press release on catch shares:

Quote
“From Florida to Alaska, catch share programs help fishing communities provide good jobs while rebuilding and sustaining healthy fisheries and ocean ecosystems,” said Dr. Jane Lubchenco, under secretary of commerce for oceans and atmosphere and NOAA administrator.
“Although this is a national policy, our emphasis is on local consideration and design of catch shares that take into consideration commercial and recreational fishing interests.”

This quote is from the NOAA Document "Catch Shares: A Fisheries Management Tool"
Quote
Recreational Fishing — Current catch share programs focus on commercial fishing groups. However, there has been recent interest in exploring their use for managing recreational fishing, which would involve assigning catch share privileges to individual anglers or sectors. All fishermen benefit from the increasing fish stock and reduction in time and effort restrictions.

If you would like links to the various NMFS document I will be happy to provide them. Gotta get back to work.
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: fish bucket on April 15, 2010, 08:15:29 PM
we as recs are in bad shape when anti fishing zealots are in charge of our fisheries!
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: IrishAyes on November 04, 2010, 12:30:47 PM
The latest news on this subject...to me it is a scary direction that we are heading in.

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2010/20101104_catchshare.html
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Noworries2009 on November 04, 2010, 05:40:33 PM
The latest news on this subject...to me it is a scary direction that we are heading in.

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2010/20101104_catchshare.html
 I agree Joe  >:( NOAA is looking for "limited entry" into fishing,period !!!!!! Not just commercial but all of us.
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Tacklebox Joe on November 04, 2010, 09:17:12 PM
and the article is written so in their favor...sickening smk
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Bucktail on November 05, 2010, 06:13:11 PM
and the article is written so in their favor...sickening smk

Of course.  It is a press release, not an objective article.

Here's what the RFA put out today on this subject:

NOAA'S CATCH SHARE POLICY SETS A TREACHEROUS COURSE
Coastal Community Expresses Concerns Over New Federal Fisheries Agenda


(11/5/2010) - Assistant Administrator of Fisheries Eric Schwaab this week announced that recreational anglers were being completely ignored by the administration.  In the National Catch Share Policy release issued by NOAA Fisheries Service, Schwaab said angler opposition to privatizing our national oceans was being disregarded, and announced that NOAA Fisheries would not be listening to individual anglers anytime soon. 

 

While NOAA's new federal policy of ignoring input from within the coastal communities was embraced by some members of the national fishing tackle industry, the new policy has raised serious concerns with grassroots political organizations and coastal legislators. 

 

"I have expressed considerable concern over the impact that catch shares may have on the recreational sector," said Rep. Frank Pallone (D-NJ).  "I believe our priority should be improving the science and management of fisheries and that promoting another management tool until those issues have been fixed will only continue to hurt our coastal communities."

 

As a national grassroots political action organization representing the rights of saltwater anglers, the Recreational Fishing Alliance (RFA) is extremely frustrated by NOAA's new direction.  "Mr. Schwaab's take on this dangerous policy is laughable at best," said RFA Executive Director Jim Donofrio.  "Mr. Schwaab claimed to hear from the angling community, but I'm not sure where he was at the time he heard it, perhaps at some Environmental Defense Fund junket, certainly not anything that local anglers were invited to."

 

On Thursday, NOAA officially released their new national policy "encouraging the consideration and use of catch shares," a fisheries management scheme which Schwaab called "an effective tool for ending overfishing."  According to Donofrio, catch shares will end overfishing primarily by eliminating fishermen.  "When we testified before Congress about catch shares in April, we made it clear that our allied groups do not support catch shares in the recreational sector," Donofrio said.  In testimony on behalf of RFA, Marine Retailers Association of America (MRAA), Fishing Rights Alliance, United Boatmen, United Boatmen of New York, Maryland Saltwater Sportsmen's Association (MSSA), National Association of Charterboat Operators (NACO), Southern Kingfish Association (SKA), Conservation Cooperative of Gulf Fishermen (CCGF), New York Sportfishing Federation, and New York Fishing Tackle Trade Association, Donofrio told a congressional committee that the use of catch shares in the recreational fishing sector "would destroy the traditional open access structure and collapse the entrance of new participants in the fishery." 

 

"All of the aforementioned groups, including the RFA, are adamantly opposed to any catch share program in the recreational fishing sector, in any way, shape or form," Donofrio testified, adding "This is a fact that cannot be compromised.  We do not want any discussion on any program that compromises traditional open access of seasons, size limits and bag limits."

 

"I also believe that by specifically targeting local fishing businesses for catch shares will only continue to hinder growth in our coastal economies," Pallone said, adding "overly restrictive management of fisheries is already hurting coastal businesses and we need to pursue policies that promote growth in coastal communities which is why I introduced the Coastal Jobs Creation Act and the Flexibility in Rebuilding American Fisheries Act."

 

"We've fought too hard and for too long to keep this catch share policy out of our sector, we cannot let NOAA continue to ramrod this policy through Councils in direct contradiction to the wishes of our fishing community," Donofrio said.  "Clearly our federal bureaucracy is not listening to the will of the people."

 

"At a time when our retailers are suffering from reduced participation due to the struggling economy, the last thing we need is a new federal policy designed purely to reduce angler effort," said MRAA President Phil Keeter.  "We need more recreational fishermen, not less."

 

"Obviously you've got a public resource which should remain public, and no one should have to pay to access it," said SKA Director Jack Holmes.  "It's been a tradition in America since before the Declaration of Independence was signed."

 

"MSSA remains adamantly opposed and wants no part of catch shares," said Dave Smith, President of the Maryland sportfishing group.   

 

"When the draft Action Agenda was sent to us to review, I made it clear to Russ Dunn (NOAA National Policy Advisor for Recreational Fisheries) and Eric Schwaab that we did not want any catch share plan in the Gulf," said CCFG and NACO representative Capt. Bob Zales, II.  "When we were asked to attend the Recreational Fishing Summit back in April we were told that business as usual from the past was over and there would be a new effort of cooperation between NOAA/NMFS and all recreational anglers. It is clear to me that we have been duped once again."  Zales added that as a member of the federal Marine Fisheries Advisory Committee (MAFAC), he was "grossly offended" by references made to "pilot recreational catch share programs" which NOAA included in their Recreational Saltwater Fisheries Action Agenda released last week. 

 

RFA says the NOAA Catch Share Policy is wrought with catch phrases and flimsy definitions, some of which are especially dangerous to future sportfishing opportunities, even non-commercial gamefish species.  "We're extremely concerned about the impact the NOAA catch shares policy could have on Highly Migratory Species (HMS) fisheries and offshore tournaments," Donofrio said, explaining how the final policy includes a catch share definition that unequivocally stops all fishing once limits are met.  "The way it's written, this excessively restrictive definition could even prohibit catch and release fishing which is a major component of the nation's recreational billfish fisheries including sailfish and marlin."

 

Donofrio said the idea of individual catch share privileges and fish tags in mixed commercial/recreational fisheries like red snapper, sea bass and scup were bad enough before the policy was set.  "We knew that assigning privilege and charging royalties for harvested species would eliminate the average center console angler, but now the fate of offshore access is completely thrown into question when you read the whole policy."

 

In an article by Richard Gaines of the Gloucester Times, RFA managing director Jim Hutchinson said "When you read this release and see how Mr. Schwaab is promoting catch shares through a $2.2 million funding initiative supported by Wal-Mart and Intel Corporation, it's hard to think how anyone in our recreational fishing industry can be anything other than outraged at this announcement." 

 

"This is bureaucracy at its best, you have a federal law which mandates you fix the data problem, but instead of meeting the initiative in the allotted deadline, you host outreach sessions, reallocate funding toward new initiatives and send out press releases," Hutchinson told John Oswald of the Asbury Park Press. 

 

"There's nothing palatable about this catch share manifesto, especially the way that NOAA is jamming it down our throats," Hutchinson said. 

 
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Noworries2009 on November 05, 2010, 09:11:52 PM
 smk Catch shares  smk "Enough said"  nosmly
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: siliconHeist on May 04, 2011, 11:44:29 AM
Older thread, and I'm a new guy here, but I have to say, if they're giving the rich all of my peice of the pie in every other part of my life, I'll be damned if they take my fishing away.

Catch shares or not, I'm going fishing, and to hell with anyone who fines/stops me. I'm not going to sit about and not fish because a group of rich paper tigers are selling shares of uncaught fish to rich guys and investors.

Pass it or not, I am going fishing.
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Hotrod on May 04, 2011, 12:47:26 PM
 t^ and wa
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: HutchJr on May 04, 2011, 05:24:58 PM
Gents,

The catch share debate most certainly has an impact on the recreational fishing community, and there absolutely have been official proposals calling for the creation of 'catch shares' within the recreational sector.

Wanna fish for fluke?  Do you have a tag?  Let's say there are 100,000 fluke tags made available during a season - these would in fact be 'shares' made available on a 'limited entry' basis.  Once those 100,000 tags are issued, it's all over. 

Who would buy those tags?  Perhaps the state of New Jersey's Fish & Wildlife Department could - sell them to the public or make 'em available to their closest allies. 

What if PEW or EDF got involved in the auction and bought up all the tags as highest bidder and then tossed them in the garbage so no one could fish?  Or corporations bought them to act as lead generators - "Hey buy an ACME sportfisherman this weekend and I'll give you 250 fluke tags!"

How about giving tags away as Christmas Presents?  Sounds bizarre?  Truth is stranger than fiction my friends, as pointed out by these silly elitists from Texas.

http://www.gulfcouncil.org/Beta/GMFMCWeb/downloads/BB%202009-08/B%20-%206%20Is%20There%20a%20Better%20Way%20to%20Manage%20US%20Shared%20Commercial%20&%20Recreational%20Fisheries.pdf
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: Hotrod on May 04, 2011, 07:34:38 PM
 thud
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: siliconHeist on May 05, 2011, 08:28:46 AM
Gents,

The catch share debate most certainly has an impact on the recreational fishing community, and there absolutely have been official proposals calling for the creation of 'catch shares' within the recreational sector.

Wanna fish for fluke?  Do you have a tag?  Let's say there are 100,000 fluke tags made available during a season - these would in fact be 'shares' made available on a 'limited entry' basis.  Once those 100,000 tags are issued, it's all over. 

Who would buy those tags?  Perhaps the state of New Jersey's Fish & Wildlife Department could - sell them to the public or make 'em available to their closest allies. 

What if PEW or EDF got involved in the auction and bought up all the tags as highest bidder and then tossed them in the garbage so no one could fish?  Or corporations bought them to act as lead generators - "Hey buy an ACME sportfisherman this weekend and I'll give you 250 fluke tags!"

How about giving tags away as Christmas Presents?  Sounds bizarre?  Truth is stranger than fiction my friends, as pointed out by these silly elitists from Texas.

http://www.gulfcouncil.org/Beta/GMFMCWeb/downloads/BB%202009-08/B%20-%206%20Is%20There%20a%20Better%20Way%20to%20Manage%20US%20Shared%20Commercial%20&%20Recreational%20Fisheries.pdf


As I said above, they can sell all the tags they want. They can bill me for any fines. I'm going fishing.  TT^

Thanks for the welcome, hotrod!
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: bassnblues on May 05, 2011, 09:16:52 AM
Sounds like one way or another, the days of going fishing without kicking up to the government are going to be over sometime soon.  nosmly


Not to open a can of worms but IMO, rec fisherman need to either get on the train or be run over by it. A SW license may be the lesser of 2 evils.
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: IrishAyes on May 05, 2011, 10:40:45 AM
I don't see how a license will help this issue.  5hrug

This issue affects everyone, those with a license and those without. What good does it do them? How will a license help us?

Look at all the rediculous restrictions the states with licenses still have. Some are worse than ours with their closed areas and such. In Florida, you need a book to page thru to see what is in season and what isn't. Sorry, but a license is one arguement I will not give into.

As far as the catch shares issue. I am not, nor will I ever be, rich enough to want to support that. That is what comes down to, who can afford to fish.  nosmly
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: bassnblues on May 05, 2011, 10:58:58 AM
Actually, I think Florida has gotten it right.

They realize the value of a thriving rec fishery and the money it brings in so they have enacted an inshore net ban and regulate species according to the biology of an area. They also have great access with things like ramps and fishing piers.

I'd rather see a state license with the money going to the F&G dept than some federal agency that's in the pocket of comercial fishing.
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: IrishAyes on May 05, 2011, 12:00:25 PM
I am by no means that experienced with other state's fisheries but...can you fit this in your wallet?  ;D

http://myfwc.com/media/1349466/2011_jan_sw-chart.pdf

I look at this and see many closed dates for a lot of fish. I know they do have many more species than we do so that would account for such a long list. It can be overwhelming to the average guy who wants to wet a line.

Not argueing the point with you, just trying to understand other's opinions on a license and present mine.  t^
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: bassnblues on May 05, 2011, 02:13:37 PM
I can definitly see you points and I mostly agree with it.

But, I think it's comming and there's nothing we can do to stop it.
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: IrishAyes on May 05, 2011, 02:35:31 PM
I can definitly see you points and I mostly agree with it.

But, I think it's comming and there's nothing we can do to stop it.

I definately agree with ou on that statement. It is a shame that it will come down to this.  :P
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: siliconHeist on May 05, 2011, 03:37:32 PM
The license proves nothing, since the state doesn't stock salt water, nor does the fed. The regulations are out of control. It's all about greasing pocket liners and back door deals that deny any of us our voices.

As far as being run over by the train, or getting on it, I'll step to the side. Besides, I know ALOT of areas game wardens won't even bother checking because they'd get the tar whipped out of them for bothering the locals.

Sometimes townies can be a savior :)
Title: Direct from Florida
Post by: harbison on June 29, 2011, 01:51:26 PM
Direct from Florida:
Regardless of how Catch Shares may be sugar coated, catch shares are the privatization of a national resource, OUR, not NOAA's, fish. Catch shares are being heavily indorsed by the head of NOAA, Dr. Jane Lubchenco, PEW & EDF. PEW & EDF were created, and still a function of, big oil. Dear Jane held a high ranking position with EDF, and accepted a large PEW "Fellowship" Grant. PEW does absolutely nothing without expecting a huge return on its investments. Both are radical, to a point, anti-fishing organizations. However, with the projected billions of dollars to be stolen from us, by selling us back our fish, Lubchenco, PEW, & EDF will, with the onset of catch shares, suddenly announce that our fisheries have made a miraculous recovery. Gosh! isn't it wonderful what big $$$ can do. And guess who is in the middle of all of this? The Walton Foundation, better known as Walmart. Walmart has already donated over $30,000,000 to EDF to be used in the push for catch shares. Walmart will be one of the first to "sell" us shares to catch OUR fish. Under catch shares, No Shares, No Fishing! Our "Friend" Walmart is expecting profits in the billions, at our expence!
As can be easily seen, the fight against catch shares, the destruction of OUR heritage, is Nation wide. We, the sportsmen/women of Florida, join the courageous people of New Jersey, as well as the rest of the nation, in the fight to take back what has been stolen from we the peoples of this once Great Nation. Together, we will again make it GREAT for ourselves and generations to come. And this, "Direct from Florida" & what I like to call our sister State, New Jersey.   slt
Bob Harbison Native Florida Life-long Recreational Fisherman
Title: Re: Catch Shares
Post by: harbison on July 04, 2011, 12:21:04 PM
 clpRegarding my last report on our 7/1 trip to the middle grounds, "The fish were on fire all night & day". My report has, in  less than one day, already been visited over 500 times.  Here  are examples of typical responses I am receiving:                                       "Great report Bob. I was out on my boat Saturday and caught more gags than reds, ridiculous."
"Good report, Bob. I will see you out there soon."
"Nice catch, Bob."
"Great report, and looks like a great time."
"Another great one Bob, thanks."
And even from what I like to call our sister State, New Jersey:  "Great report and pics. Thanks for posting."

My response:

Thank guys!  It really helps to be appreciated. I but a great deal of time & energy into these reports. People need to know, first hand, what is actually out there. What is being done to the American people, in the name of catch shares, is nothing more than a crime. Ever think about the real reason for a 48 day ARS season & a 2 month gag season (during the worst of our hurricane season)? The true reason is really very simple. If NOAA recognizes what is actually in our Gulf of Mexico, as well as on our Atlantic side, there would be absolutely NO NEED for either catch shares or sector separation. Jane Lubchenco's legacy to EDF & PEW would not be realized. Walmart would be denied the privilege of selling us shares to catch OUR fish. Remember, under catch shares, NO SHARES, NO FISH!
From one end of this once great Country to the other, we, the recreational anglers, know, first hand, what is actually in our waters. We know from actual on the water experience, not from behind the desk science.
Bob Harbison, a Florida native, life long recreational fisherman