NJ Saltwater Fisherman Forums

The Surf Fisherman Forum => From The Surf => Topic started by: KingCrab004 on January 02, 2012, 09:13:26 AM

Title: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: KingCrab004 on January 02, 2012, 09:13:26 AM
First of all this is my first post so let me start by saying HELLO to all of you.

I'm new to surf casting but I use to own a boat so I have plenty  boat fishing experience . But no Surf. I plan to purchase one of the following set ups and would like your opinions. I plan to use this rod and reel for 1 oz buck tails to 3 0z poppers . Later I will invest into bait set up. I will be mainly fishing the Jersey shore. Thanks

Reels: Penn Slammer 560
                  Shimano Saragosa 8000

Rods: St.Croix Mojo 10Ft /Mod-Fast/1-4 lure wt
         St.Croix Mojo  10.6Ft/Mod/ lure wt 3/4-4
         St.Croix Legend 10Ft/Mod-Fast/1-4 lure wt
         St.Croix Legend 10Ft/Mod/ Lure wt 3/4-4

All spooled with Braid.Is it worth it to pay the extra for the Legend I have heard that the Mojo is to soft for lures over 2 1/2 oz .Thanks for your suggestions.   ;D
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: KingCrab004 on January 02, 2012, 09:24:37 AM
Also any set ups you other than the ones I chose that you like better would be great.
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: IrishAyes on January 02, 2012, 10:50:32 AM
KingCrab, welcome to the site. There will be some ace surf fishermen here who can and will give great advise on setups for the surf. I am not one of them, I fish exclusively from my boat. But your answers will be coming in soon.

Again, welcome to the site.  t^
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: SurfJockey on January 02, 2012, 11:54:21 AM
I have a 9' mojo 3/4-4.  It did work for me this Fall.  Only place I have found it not to exceed is when throwing light bombers and such as it might be a little stiff to feel them working.  ChrisL on this site has the 10'6" and can give you his feedback.  As for the Legend, if you're just starting out, the last thing I'd do is shell out 400 beans on a rod.  Unless your very wealthy I'd say go with a VS200 and a custom CTS or Century.  ;D Welcome to the site.  Look forward to seeing your reports.  Where are you planning on fishing?
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: KingCrab004 on January 02, 2012, 12:40:42 PM
The legend is a bit steep in price but I want to make sure I get a rod that will not have to be upgraded. I was thinking of trying Sandy Hook, and IBSP. $600 to $650 is probably the most I can spend right now. I agree that the VS200 are nice but way out of my budget. nosmly
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: SurfJockey on January 02, 2012, 12:48:19 PM
I was kidding about the VS.   To me the mojo is a good choice to cover most of the things I need it to do.  Don't take anyone's word on a rod, best thing to do is go check them out and put one in your hands.
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: Reel McCoy on January 02, 2012, 01:03:30 PM
 wa
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: Hotrod on January 02, 2012, 01:05:08 PM
Welcome Aboard. I look forward to your input here.

Just one question  I see you registered almost 3 years ago.. thud  and your just posting now ;D
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: ChrisL on January 02, 2012, 02:31:41 PM
Welcome  grtn

I like the Mojo rods, but most of what you listed are too big/stiff for throwing 1-2oz bucktails.  It's tough to pick one rod/reel to handle everything. 
You would be best served by starting with 2 rods for lures and 1 for bait.  There are plenty of quality rods in the $100-$150 range.  Which would allow you to get 2 combos set up.
I have the 10'6 3/4-4 Mojo.  It's sweet spot is 2-3oz lures.  It can throw a 1oz bucktail or bomber, but not well. 
For 1-1.5oz, I would look for something in the 9ft 1/2-3oz range.  Weather it be a Mojo, Tica TC2, Airwave, etc. 
The Slammer is a good solid reel (just dont dunk it).  The 560 is a good size match for a 10 or 10'6 rod.  If you pick up a 9ft, look for a reel in the 400 size.
Take a look at the Penn Battle and some of the Shimanos as well.

My personal arsenal is:
10'6 3/4-4oz Mojo with a VS 200 (or Penn 704z)  - my goto rod.  Larger swimmers, poppers, AVA27, AVA37, 2-3oz bucktails.
11' 2-8oz Tica TC2 with Penn 704z (or VS 200)  - Second choice in the surf.  Does very will with 2-3oz pencils and swimmers.
9' 1/2-3oz Tica TC2 with a Shimano Stradic 4000.  -  Goto rod in the bays and rivers.  Also great for the surf on calmer days.  Handles any lure from 1/2-2oz and has plenty of backbone for good fish.
7ft Airwave w/ a 4000 Penn -  Lighter stuff in the rivers and bays and fluking. 

Good luck.  As Jason said, visit your local shop and feel the rods/reels your looking at and talk to the shop owners. 

Feel free to ask away.  And let us know what you end up with. 
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: KingCrab004 on January 02, 2012, 03:17:31 PM
Hey ChrisL Nice info bud as well as everyone else. So I leaning toward the MoJo 10'6 Ft 3/4-4 rod. But what do you mean don't dunk the Slammer . Since I'm looking at a less expensive rod I can splurge some on the reel what reel would be better than the slammer that be dunked.
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: FishOn on January 02, 2012, 04:37:25 PM
Hey ChrisL Nice info bud as well as everyone else. So I leaning toward the MoJo 10'6 Ft 3/4-4 rod. But what do you mean don't dunk the Slammer . Since I'm looking at a less expensive rod I can splurge some on the reel what reel would be better than the slammer that be dunked.

VS, ZeaBaas, or old Penn. The only reason I say Penn is cause the older models are so easy to self service.  If you happen to dunk it, take a half hour when you get home and open it up, clean it and grease it and your good to go again.  I own several slammers which are decent but better suited for boat fishing (same with shimano). Look into the VS vm reel or find a used VS or Z. My next upgrade will be a Z with a legend, century, or custom lamiglas
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: ChrisL on January 02, 2012, 05:47:06 PM
If you're only going to stay on dry sand, the Slammer is a great reel.  If you start wading out and taking waves to the chest, the reel will get splashed and dunked.  It's not a sealed reel and the water, salt and sand will destroy the reel's internal parts.  It's a great reel for bait fishing where you typically stay on the beach. 

The old Penn Spinfisher series (704Z, 706Z, 710Z, etc) aren't sealed either, but can take it better....with proper maint as FishOn said. 

The only reels that are fully sealed and intended to be dunked are the Van Stall and Zeebass.  But they are very expensive and probably not the wisest purchase for someone just starting out. 
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: BigAl13 on January 02, 2012, 06:00:26 PM
All good info guys. My personal arsenal consists of

9' tc2/ penn battle no need for backing braid on this reeel

10' tc3 dolphin/Penn 650ss  the rods a bit stiffer really like it for bait

9 & 10' tsunami trophy series/tica stripper special bait runners. use these mostly for bait.

the tc2 setup is my most used as it easily casts light lures and has enough bone to easily cast 2-3oz metals. another reason i use this the most is that it is very light and makes arm fatigue a easier to beat
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: KingCrab004 on January 02, 2012, 07:08:37 PM
What about the Penn Torque reels compared to the vs200?
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: ChrisL on January 02, 2012, 08:07:11 PM
I've heard the Torque is a very solid reel.  They claim it to be sealed, but some people are skeptical.  I've never personally used one.
The VS and ZB reels have stood the test of time.
You can find Penn 704Z reels (good match for 10'6) on Ebay from less then $100.  And 706Z (good for a 9') for about $200.
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: FishOn on January 02, 2012, 08:17:50 PM
I've heard the Torque is a very solid reel.  They claim it to be sealed, but some people are skeptical.  I've never personally used one.
The VS and ZB reels have stood the test of time.
You can find Penn 704Z reels (good match for 10'6) on Ebay from less then $100.  And 706Z (good for a 9') for about $200.

I'm a big fan of Penn reels. On paper the torque looks great. My only problem with it is it is so damn ugly!
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: blynch on January 03, 2012, 01:02:12 PM
Welcome aboard.

I havent had any experience with either of the rods, but I can tell yoyu the Slammers are absolute tanks for the money.  I have a 560 spooled with 30lb braid that I have used for bucktailing, jigging, and livelining bunker. I've had bass up to 30 lbs on it and it has worked like a champ every time.  I also had a great experience with a 460 that I retired afew years ago when I thought it was broken, but later discovered that a screw on the inside had popped loose, and when I put it back in place I was back in business. For the price, I have writter many times that they are hard reels to beat.   
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: KingCrab004 on January 03, 2012, 02:55:39 PM
I played with the Van Staal today at Ramsey Outdoors Me Likey! If I don't get to pick one up this year Ill look for a used Penn 704z. So let me get this straight the Penn 704z will work with Fireline just not Power Pro? If so can you explain why? ???
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: FishOn on January 03, 2012, 04:21:33 PM
To me it's the way the line wraps on the spool. Braid needs a nice even tight wrap or else you run into problems with wind knots (though it has little to do with the wind). I haven't found a Penn reel new or old that works great with braid though they all work great with fireline. I use 10lb on my really light setups, 14lb on most of my setups, and 20 on the heavy stuff. They all have breaking strengths higher than what they are rated for. Others will disagree but the VS are better off with fireline as well. I stick to braid for my baitcasters and conventionals or on my slammers that are used on the boat but as they been needing replacing I have just been going back to fireline
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: BigAl13 on January 03, 2012, 06:22:56 PM
King keep an eye out as i will be posting some reels i have for sale later. Maybe i have something you can use till u get your mind made up. t^
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: KingCrab004 on January 03, 2012, 07:30:42 PM
Sounds good BigAl13 keep me posted.
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: ChrisL on January 03, 2012, 07:58:34 PM
The old Penns (704, 706, etc) weren't designed for braid.  But neither was the Slammer and a lot of other reels. 
I use Power Pro on all my reels with no real problems.
I do get wind knots, but that usually related to conditions or user error. 
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: IrishAyes on January 03, 2012, 08:27:32 PM
Close the bail manually instead of by cranking the handle and that should eliminate most, if not all, wind knots.

When you flip the bail manually give a slight tug on the line (going away from the spool toward your rod tip) to remove any slack in the line. It will become second nature after a little practice. From my experiences it is the slack in the line or a twist in the line put in by cranking the bail closed that causes the so called 'wind knot'.
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: Bucktail on January 03, 2012, 09:50:54 PM
 whs t^
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: FishOn on January 03, 2012, 11:27:56 PM
Close the bail manually instead of by cranking the handle and that should eliminate most, if not all, wind knots.

When you flip the bail manually give a slight tug on the line (going away from the spool toward your rod tip) to remove any slack in the line. It will become second nature after a little practice. From my experiences it is the slack in the line or a twist in the line put in by cranking the bail closed that causes the so called 'wind knot'.

This is true for bailed reels. But old penns and VSs dont wrap line properly for use with braid IMO. I had occasional knots even with my bailless reels until I switched over to fire line.  If you can see a gap at either end of the spool between the line and the spool lip which you will the penn Zs, slammers, and VSs, then you are better off with fireline or mono. Doesn't mean braid won't work, just unnecessary hassle
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: ChrisL on January 04, 2012, 06:02:52 PM
I had a bunch of wind knots this fall that were pretty much unpreventable.  With the sandeels around, we were fishing AVAs almost exclusively.  Many days there was a had left-right or right-left sweep in the surf.  That meant the AVA was rolling with the sweep and creating a lot of line twist.  Any slack or loop in the line would twist up and knot. 
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: Noworries2009 on January 04, 2012, 07:07:04 PM
Interesting comments on power pro and wind knots as I am pretty much an expert in this area. I've gotten plenty of them  ::).20,30,40# doesn't matter.Also have used Suffix braids with similar results. Fishing pre-dawn and always manually flipping the bail. My old Penn SS were re-tired this year from plugging for this but had plenty of problems with the new Penn Battles. I'll be fishing mostly Fire line for plugging in 2012 !!!!! More room for operator error especially in the dark.
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: BigAl13 on January 04, 2012, 07:14:42 PM
Wind knots suck. Ive had them with multiple reels and multiple braids. Chris one way that helps me with the line twist while fishing avas is using a short 3' top shop connected via swivel. It doesnt completely eliminate it but sure helps a little.
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: ChrisL on January 04, 2012, 07:21:40 PM
I use a swivel between my main line and leader.  I honestly don't believe swivel actually swivel unless there is serious tension on them (a fish). 

Another point of reference.  With the Penn Spinfishers (704z) you cannot manually close the bail, you have to turn the handle.  Or...convert it to bailless. 
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: Bucktail on January 04, 2012, 10:32:47 PM
I get a lot less line twist with braid than I ever did with mono.  Having said that, when braid does get all twisted up, it's a nightmare! rgmn  Best thing to do is cut it off and respool.

Chris, you're right.  Barrel swivels don't help with line twist.  All they are good for is connecting two lines.  You might want to try the Spro ball bearing swivels next time out. t^
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: BigAl13 on January 04, 2012, 10:47:32 PM
 :headscra: WE can fix it we have the technology.
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: FishOn on January 05, 2012, 01:14:58 AM
I get a lot less line twist with braid than I ever did with mono.  Having said that, when braid does get all twisted up, it's a nightmare! rgmn  Best thing to do is cut it off and respool.


No way! Feed line out with nothing attached to the end behind a moving boat or on a moving tide from a dock or jetty. Let it hold in the current for a couple minutes and it brings all the twist out. Make sure you keep tension with your fingers while reeling it back in. I do this after using rooster tails and other spinners while trout fishing in rivers or after trolling Clark spoons for the speedsters. . Learned this trick on a charter boat while tarpon fishing in key west.  *That is if you are not all knotted up already and you have a back up reel to use in the meantime.
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: Noworries2009 on January 05, 2012, 11:50:11 AM
This is off topic maybe we should start a new thread. I don't believe wind knots are caused by line twist. I use spro swivels to connect braid and teaser rig. Wind knots are caused by a few different things. Tops for me is a loop over the spool at the end of a cast. The next or following casts and this loop drags the line and can break the line or cause more line to tangle. Left un done will cause a real nest deep in the spool. Most times I'll be forced to rack the rod and grab another one. Casting lures of all weights and sizes have given me wind knots with braid. The castability of braid has me using it but after using Fire line lately I will switch when I respool next time. 
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: IKAT on January 05, 2012, 12:32:12 PM
I get a lot less line twist with braid than I ever did with mono.  Having said that, when braid does get all twisted up, it's a nightmare! rgmn  Best thing to do is cut it off and respool.


No way! Feed line out with nothing attached to the end behind a moving boat or on a moving tide from a dock or jetty. Let it hold in the current for a couple minutes and it brings all the twist out. Make sure you keep tension with your fingers while reeling it back in. I do this after using rooster tails and other spinners while trout fishing in rivers or after trolling Clark spoons for the speedsters. . Learned this trick on a charter boat while tarpon fishing in key west.  *That is if you are not all knotted up already and you have a back up reel to use in the meantime.

I agree!!! It all depends on HOW the Braid was spooled--I wet spool braid--and now for the good part-As I told many people-and if your braid is not spooled TIGHT-and if you do not put it out --you will have many problems with braid--I tie a swivel in the water with weight and then bring in tight-if you do your own--!!!!

As I told NJ-GUY--tie it to your dog--your wife--or the bumper of your car when first spooling---ONLY if you do not have a GOOD spooling station--YEA that got some laughs-BUT-it does work--Bottom line--spool your braid --WET--or wet it after you spool 5hrug

PS Hey Bucktail--is that a 300lb er er er t^
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: Bucktail on January 05, 2012, 01:01:58 PM
PS Hey Bucktail--is that a 300lb er er er t^

The snap swivel?  I don't know.  It's just a pic I googled up.
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: BigAl13 on January 07, 2012, 05:54:57 AM
New post needed Wind knots/fishing braid. Good for search results on google.
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: FishermanMIKE on June 11, 2012, 08:08:33 AM
Hello out there.. I'm new to the site as well as Surf fishing.. I have been going back and between set ups.. For the past couple of years I have been using a 7' inshore lami rod with a abu Garcia bait casting reel off Ortley beach.. It has done pretty well for me caught many fluke and other fish on it, but know I'm looking to really get into it.. So my question is do I go up to a 9' tica for small jigging and poppers or should I go for 10'6 tic a dolphin which could just about be used for anything bait, metals ext.. ??
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: ChrisL on June 11, 2012, 02:42:55 PM
Hello out there.. I'm new to the site as well as Surf fishing.. I have been going back and between set ups.. For the past couple of years I have been using a 7' inshore lami rod with a abu Garcia bait casting reel off Ortley beach.. It has done pretty well for me caught many fluke and other fish on it, but know I'm looking to really get into it.. So my question is do I go up to a 9' tica for small jigging and poppers or should I go for 10'6 tic a dolphin which could just about be used for anything bait, metals ext.. ??
Ultimately....both.   Yeah I know that doesn't answer your question.
The 9ft will cover a wide range, but it won't handle a 2.5oz pencil popper, 3oz ava, etc very well.  All of which you will want to / need to throw at times.
Likewise, the 10 6 will serve several needs, but again it will have limitation.  If you need to throw a bomber, sluggo, ava17....the 10 6 won't throw it well.  It may also be a little tiresome to throw all day compared to the 9ft.
I would suggest figuring out which you would be likely to use based on how you plan to fish the majority of the time.  Start with that one, then add the other one to your collection in a couple months.
After all.....you can never have too many rods.  ;)
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: FishermanMIKE on June 11, 2012, 05:20:42 PM
Hello out there.. I'm new to the site as well as Surf fishing.. I have been going back and between set ups.. For the past couple of years I have been using a 7' inshore lami rod with a abu Garcia bait casting reel off Ortley beach.. It has done pretty well for me caught many fluke and other fish on it, but know I'm looking to really get into it.. So my question is do I go up to a 9' tica for small jigging and poppers or should I go for 10'6 tic a dolphin which could just about be used for anything bait, metals ext.. ??
Ultimately....both.   Yeah I know that doesn't answer your question.
The 9ft will cover a wide range, but it won't handle a 2.5oz pencil popper, 3oz ava, etc very well.  All of which you will want to / need to throw at times.
Likewise, the 10 6 will serve several needs, but again it will have limitation.  If you need to throw a bomber, sluggo, ava17....the 10 6 won't throw it well.  It may also be a little tiresome to throw all day compared to the 9ft.
I would suggest figuring out which you would be likely to use based on how you plan to fish the majority of the time.  Start with that one, then add the other one to your collection in a couple months.
After all.....you can never have too many rods.  ;)

Chris, thanks for getting back to me on this. I have been thinking about it all last night and all day.. My outcome of thinking is that I like to play with the rod.. haha "not myself" I think I narrowed it down to a 9' Tica with a Cabo 40 reel. 30lb braided line.. The reason being I'm mainly going to fish buck tails and jigs.. Eventually I will add a 2nd. rod for bait while I'm playing with my STICK.. lol..
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: ChrisL on June 11, 2012, 07:04:31 PM
Sounds like a good plan.  You should be able to throw a wide variety with the 9ft Tica.  Plastic swimmers, bucktails, AVAs and smaller poppers.
But on rough days or when you need a metal lip swimmer, big popper, etc it won't cut it.
It is a nice light rod for all day casting. 

By adding the 10 6 down the road you'll have all your bases pretty well covered. 

Good luck  t^
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: JeffL on June 11, 2012, 07:05:16 PM
 whs
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: FishermanMIKE on June 11, 2012, 07:29:22 PM
Thanks guys, I appreciate all your feed back..  What's a good area in IBSP to start out at?
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: FishOn on June 12, 2012, 11:52:26 AM
Thanks guys, I appreciate all your feed back..  What's a good area in IBSP to start out at?

Do you want us to reel the fish in for you too?  Scout around. Find structure, find bait, stay mobile

I don't mean to sound like a jerk. But asking for fishing spots is like asking a man if you could sleep with his wife. It might work sometimes but when it does you will almost always see a bunch of guys there already
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: ChrisL on June 12, 2012, 01:25:20 PM
 rofla rofla

Everyone has there favorite spots on IBSP or any other beach for that matter.  You have to find yours too.  The fish swim so the hole that is productive today this season, might not be productive tomorrow or next season. 

In terms of accessibility....
If you will be accessing the beach by foot (as opposed to 4x4) then it almost boils down to where you can park and how far you are willing to walk. 
The north end of the park tends to be less populated, but has few access points. 
The middle, from the bathing beaches to A23 can get very crowded in season, but has many access points.
The southern end includes the pocket, inlet and N Jetty , but A23 is the last access point and the inlet is over a mile from there. 
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: FishermanMIKE on June 12, 2012, 03:23:45 PM
Thanks guys, I appreciate all your feed back..  What's a good area in IBSP to start out at?

Do you want us to reel the fish in for you too?  Scout around. Find structure, find bait, stay mobile

I don't mean to sound like a jerk. But asking for fishing spots is like asking a man if you could sleep with his wife. It might work sometimes but when it does you will almost always see a bunch of guys there already

FISHON,

I wasn't directly asking for spots as I never fished IBSP, just wanted some in-site of the area since I'm a newbi at surf...
Title: Re: Help me choose My first surf set up !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 12, 2012, 03:56:39 PM
your gonna love that tica rod, chris hit it on the head with his description, you can use big pencils and divers with the 9'6" but its not great.