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NJ Saltwater Fishing Reports and Information => NJ Saltwater Fishing Reports => Topic started by: megabait on June 21, 2012, 02:21:04 PM



Title: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: megabait on June 21, 2012, 02:21:04 PM
 went out this morning for our great lil snag n drop fishing got 5. kept nice 20 lb.er that was gut hooked. how ever at my marina dumpster there had to be a couple dozen 30-40 lb.er's racks. i saw all the charter boats in front of shark inlet netting non stop n nothing going back. like i said im no tree hugger but how many big fish do we need to take? our frezzers are full with bass by now.most of all the racks had orange egg sacks over a foot long!i see all the dead bass lined up for the pic's. like a cord of wood on the docks.I guess im just worried that all the breeders are being taking and we will be bitching where are all the bass? just my thinking. megabait


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Reckless on June 21, 2012, 02:37:38 PM
I only take what I consume. Everything else goes back.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Capt. Carl on June 21, 2012, 03:54:02 PM
Documented fact: Striper Roe are orange in early season,turning to a tanish brown and then to an olive Green..Not Orange.... right before spawning...the ovaries stay full but turn back to orange after the spawn but have a thinner wall lining....so you were probably seeing the post spawn ovaries.....as these fish are most certainly spawned out.
I would say that 75% of charter boat CHARTERS are people who DO NOT own their own boats or live near the shore....and do NOT have the luxury to fish 4 days a week to play catch and release.
That being said...i can tell you there is a fine line trying to run a business and being a conservative at the same time....i tell the guys about the big fish being breeders...and how keeping just one fish will be plenty of meat for 1 family....at the same time, i tell them the regulations, which is 2 per person....and is within the LAW. They make the decision from there...and i will ask them before the fish is even at the boat every time we have a fish on what they want to do.
Bonus tags are another story....again they are within the law to be used....but i see no reason to use them on the big fish....obviously with the state selling them, they see no impact on Striper Populations by having them used...is this the charter captains fault? Nope
In a nutshell...here is where i stand.....i will do all i can in my power to be conservative without getting in a pissing contest with the customer by restricting what they can LEGALLY take home. Keep in mind they pay good money to get on charter boats and its a business.
No negativity or bashing here....just my take on the situation...we are all entitled to our feelings and opinions

We have seen this battle on the other sites and i was hoping it wouldn't show itself here.
I can tell you that you will get fewer and fewer charter reports and gets to the point we will just stop posting....or just throw up a report that says....had a great day today...see website for full report and pics.
I can say that the Conservation groups are winning the battle tho....it seems they have successfully pitted Recreational vs. Recreational against each other now.






 


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Hotrod on June 21, 2012, 03:59:10 PM
I can understand charters always taking their
Limit.  They have cucomers customers that want fish


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: njbob49 on June 21, 2012, 04:17:08 PM
Well said Captain Carl.It is a very fine line that the charter and party boat captains walk as to what is legal to do, versus what you would like to do to keep the fishing for future generations.

We all know there are people who count how many fish are in the picture so they can say you took over your limit.  Or the people who say the fish looks like a short.

You are so right with the conservation groups having the upper hand right now. "Divide and Conquer" goes way back in history as a succesful way to beat your enemy. We as recreational fishmen are so busy arguing with each other we don't have time to fight the real enemy.

Tight Lines,
Bob G  chrz slt

PS: Hotrod, were you trying to spell customers or cucumbers? HAHAHA  rofla  hhppy


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Capt. Kris on June 21, 2012, 04:17:58 PM
Megabait, shoulda just comment on my post instead of stabbing me here.

Delete this thread rod! People have no clue!


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: IKAT on June 21, 2012, 04:20:53 PM
Delete this thread rod!

X2--   t^ Kris


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: captainbailey on June 21, 2012, 04:34:18 PM
can't we all just  :-*


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Fisherman120 on June 21, 2012, 04:45:08 PM
People on charters usually only go out once or twice a year, I see no problem with people like that keeping 2 large fish and 3 with a tag. There's a lot more people handling fish wrong when they release them then keeping the large fish.... We should be happy these fish are around in these numbers.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: newcaddy4j on June 21, 2012, 05:03:58 PM
Capt Carl,  well put.    I stopped posting on that NY website because it was non stop bashing and just plain stupidity.    There's no need for it.   I'd be more pissed about the guys illegally fishing from the surf and keeping everything they hook.   


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Hotrod on June 21, 2012, 05:04:22 PM
I don't think this is directed to any one Captain...
Though.. Kris has been having a great year ;D

You catch a lot of fish Kris. That is what people pay you to do.. right t^  People will always have opinions.. and that's all they are t^


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Reel Time on June 21, 2012, 05:46:47 PM
Bill Dance always said,,"bass are like money in the bank, easy to take out, but hard to put back"

 different bass he's referring to but same concept.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Hotrod on June 21, 2012, 05:55:25 PM
But we have regulations for that.


Title: re; tree hugger
Post by: megabait on June 21, 2012, 06:05:30 PM
don't want to get anyone mad but,i got my u.s.c.g. lic. since 1985. had a 6-pack bus.for a while and still run my friends boat for him on days he can't. so i know where people are coming from,and what ever color the egg sacks turn roasting in a dumpster is mute.and i know the fine line.been running out of shark river 35 yr.s plus.and yes i live in wall go all the time.and theres nothing wrong taking home fish to eat.just way to many big females being taking.and pic's books trips!i remember when you couldn't catch a bass now we have a VERY SPECIAL FISHERY HERE and i would like to keep it that way.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: wb on June 22, 2012, 09:04:41 AM
Every year the bass continue to get larger and more plentiful.
Were they overfished in years past? YES. Are they rebuilding? YES.
Keep only what is allowed, and consume all of it, and worry about the ashwholes who poach and waste and those godawful bunker boats hoovering up the ocean (and bay.) That's where your worrying should focus on. And by all means- take a pic of your catch too (and post it up!) Even more so if you did happen to limit out and there's 500# of bass on the dock... 


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: bassnblues on June 22, 2012, 09:22:28 AM
IMO, bass fishing's a shadow of what it was when I startd targeting them in about 1996.

As a weekend angler I could go out with some frozen bunker, anchor up and do pretty good. That will not happen now...


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Treebeard on June 22, 2012, 11:23:29 AM
Well stated Capt. Carl..  slt This is always a touchy subject.. I feel for the charter captains caught in the middle..impossible to please everyone.. but the fares are supplying their paycheck, so of course their wishes must be satisfied..  I do not begrudge anyone taking what the law allows if it will be used..  I grew up fishing the Hudson spawning runs.. up here in the area where most of the actual spawning takes place..so I've witnessed the building of the fishery.. I started back in the late '70s... when there where NO size or creel limits, and most of the other boats out there where dragging nets.... Green as cucumbers, and without much of a clue, we still caught (and often killed) boatloads of bass..but rarely saw fish over 20#.. By the early 80's,  the Chesapeake stocks had started to decline (although the Hudson remained strong), and coastwide regs started to be applied.. mostly ending commercial fishing and implementing our current limit.. 1 fish  @ +18" .. As very few guys where sport fishing for them up here back then, there was little resistance to the new laws.. and those of us who where fishing it gladly accepted the regs.. understanding the importance of protecting the spawners..and happy to lose the competition of the netters..  within a few years we where seeing bigger and bigger schools returning.. By the '90's we where in the "glory days".. Fishinders would black out over an entire 1/2 mile flat with schools so thick you could not lift a bucktail without snagging them... fish over 30# became routine.. and the pressure began to escalate..  with the help of some promotion by myself and others in the tackle biz at the time, charters from Lake Ontario and a few from the salt moved in to capitalize on the glut of fish.. No one expected this peak of the 90's to last forever, and as regs loosened slightly in the salt, and pressure increased, the size of the schools diminished somewhat.. but we still see way more fish every spring than anyone dreamed of in the 70's.. and waaay more big fish.. so the bottom line of all this.. Are they in decline?   5hrug  maybe.. but as we are fishing under the same regs as we did while the stocks where building to record proportions, I do not believe it is due much in part to the Rec. take..It's my feeling it is more a result of a natural cycle.. a reduction from all time high populations that some now  compare too.... built during a time of protection and minimal pressure..  but more important as Warren points out,  is the reduction of the food sources.. the bunker and herring that are in such high demand by the non-fishing, health crazed public for their omega oils..  And while most anglers will nod in agreement when this is mentioned, as the Com's don't post pics of tons of dead bunker on the docks, they don't draw the ire of the internet like the Charters do..And while people would like to see unlimited #'s of Striped Bass, how many are too many? When a species begins to out-run its food source, just like deer, the whole population becomes threatened.. I like to keep in mind that Charter Capts. are just as interested as the private joe in keeping fish stocks high..no one will come out if the fish are sparse and hard to catch..  and every one I've ever Striper fished with has at least softly urged the release of fish over what can be readily utilized.. But for the fares who get to fish once or a few times a year, I cannot blame them for taking home all that the law allows when they get a chance.. nor the Charters for not fighting them over it.. For those that feel the fishery is in trouble, than fight the regs.. not those that abide by them..  But it does seem to me that attitudes are changing..Personally, I stopped killing the big girls up here on the river many years ago.. A 10-15lb male feeds my family just fine, and I am lucky enough to fish often, so I need not stockpile the freezer..  and as attitudes change, I foresee an evolution like what has occurred in freshwater...where most sporties  would rather give up a kidney than kill a Largemouth bass..(of which there is certainly no shortage).. so perhaps more saltwater anglers will voluntarily begin to  be more selective in their harvest.. but its not fair to expect a Charter Capt. already struggling to feed his family in this economy,  to take it upon himself and  risk losing his business by imposing extra restrictions on his customers, based on popular or personal opinion, as opposed to what the law allows..    t^   chrz  chrz


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: overbite on June 22, 2012, 12:15:03 PM
I am so sick and tired of someone saying their struggling to make a living that it some how makes things seen diffidently.
#1 If they stay with in the regulations So Be IT. #2 If you want to catch and release So BE IT.#3 judge no one for what they do if they are not harming anyone or thing with in the Laws set forward. Now about The Struggling part  >:D How many full time charter Boats are there compared to Part Time ones set up for a TAX wright off. To support the the cost of the boat and costs involved. I had Mated on a few Charter Boats     
out of Clarks Landing and Chrystal Point Marina. And the Number of part time boats far out numbered the full time ones. And even the full time ones the Owners had other Jobs and Businesses. The Successful ones were self supported. And I never heard any of them say they struggled to feed their family's. Its a course they chose. Today its easy to complain and point fingers. How many
kept many more Flounder. Fluke. Blue fish. Tuna. and On and on before they were regulated. At least Now you have a choice To release or Keep your Limit. Maybe the limit catchers are sharing the catch with their family's. But Cut this Struggling to feed their Family's. I mated part time for fun mostly and paid in tips from stiffed to $500. for off shore trips.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: bassnblues on June 22, 2012, 02:11:41 PM
You can't fault anyone whose within the regs but its also valid to raise a concern about those regs


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: IKAT on June 22, 2012, 02:44:26 PM
?--And just asking--Where does the money go in NJ for unused bonus tags??


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: wb on June 22, 2012, 02:56:07 PM
?--And just asking--Where does the money go in NJ for unused bonus tags??

or even used tags? It sure ain't sprucin' up AC like the billion$ in lottery and casino gambling funds are...


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: overbite on June 22, 2012, 03:04:35 PM
 5hrug Where does the tag money go if not used. The same place that the money you put in a parking meter and leave with time left on it. or pass it along rgmn


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: IKAT on June 22, 2012, 03:05:11 PM
?--And just asking--Where does the money go in NJ for unused bonus tags??

or even used tags? It sure ain't sprucin' up AC like the billion$ in lottery and casino gambling funds are...


I hope not


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 22, 2012, 06:25:27 PM
As many have said I personally do not have a problem with people keeping their limit. I do see fault in the regulations on many of our fisheries so I'll save my words for the fisheries managers that want to protect dogfish while we can't find a flounder, weakfish, etc..

However I personally hate the classic bass-stacked-like-wood on a dock photo. Dead bass, fluke, seabass, and ling are not pretty. The angler on the dock appears to have lost the initial excitement. And I don't mean to dog on the for hire captains, but that type of picture just seems to me like it is only for the capt or angler to show they can put limit catches together.  A pile of them appears as systematic destruction of a species. Just saying live action shots when the fish is landed and still lively and the angler still has the adrenaline rush is always a better photo in my opinion.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 23, 2012, 06:47:30 AM
?--And just asking--Where does the money go in NJ for unused bonus tags??


To the obama campaign fund fcp


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: overbite on June 23, 2012, 10:41:01 AM
 rgmn
Fish On I respect your opinion :P But Did you ever see a photo of a Shark. Sail Fish , Marlin, Taken at dock side the taken back or out to sea and dumped. I Have. Ever see how long liners and commercial trawlers dump their By Catches back like Sward fish , Tuna, and many more types of fish. The damage to the sea bed by Roller gear. Lost traps on Reefs that keep on Catching and killing. Photos of Catches have been going on since there were cameras. Its what the fishermen wants for bragging rights. If there is a Dock and fishermen there will be photos of them. And yes it shows what A certain charter boat can produce. A There is commercial fishing and quotes set for dog fish. Only in america do we not find them edible but I have had the batter fried and in England and other parts they are the fish and chips of choice. You Just have to skin and clean Right away and ice them or ammonia sets in, And lastly ever see sea robins thrown up on the beaches in NJ. They to are very edible. and sought after by many nationality's i have seen people on sandy Hook picking up what so called sports men discarded.  :headscra: Ling were once trash fish, now they are still sewer trout, trash belleys, but people now pay to fish for them
In ending  smk you have a right to a opinion and not to BASH others for theirs  :-X If its not illeagal its not a sick bird, leave it be chrz Bill


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 23, 2012, 08:22:08 PM
rgmn
Fish On I respect your opinion :P But Did you ever see a photo of a Shark. Sail Fish , Marlin, Taken at dock side the taken back or out to sea and dumped. I Have. Ever see how long liners and commercial trawlers dump their By Catches back like Sward fish , Tuna, and many more types of fish. The damage to the sea bed by Roller gear. Lost traps on Reefs that keep on Catching and killing. Photos of Catches have been going on since there were cameras. Its what the fishermen wants for bragging rights. If there is a Dock and fishermen there will be photos of them. And yes it shows what A certain charter boat can produce. A There is commercial fishing and quotes set for dog fish. Only in america do we not find them edible but I have had the batter fried and in England and other parts they are the fish and chips of choice. You Just have to skin and clean Right away and ice them or ammonia s ets in, And lastly ever see sea robins thrown up on the beaches in NJ. They to are very edible. and sought after by many nationality's i have seen people on sandy Hook picking up what so called sports men discarded.  :headscra: Ling were once trash fish, now they are still sewer trout, trash belleys, but people now pay to fish for them
In ending  smk you have a right to a opinion and not to BASH others for theirs  :-X If its not illeagal its not a sick bird, leave it be chrz Bill

Ok, what does dogfish quotas and sea robin collectors have to do with my last post? I don't like when people kill ANYTHING that will not be consumed if that is what you mean. It obviously happens often, doesn't make it right or sporting IMO. I'm not bashing anyone for keeping their limit. I'm just saying the regs are not fair to the fish and made the dumb comment that the same old fishing photo that has been done since the beginning of photography is boring and often not flattering.

I'll rant a bit,  ;D
Regulations are crap because most of the time they are too late. The current condition and the recreational vs commercial regulations on the weakfish fishery is a perfect example. I believe that blowfish,ling and striped bass are going to decline in numbers as well if things continue the way they are. Its not the anglers fault and certainly not the for-hires fault as everyone has a right to earn a living. Its the dumb ass fisheries managers and their junk science that are reactive versus proactive.



Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: bassnblues on June 23, 2012, 09:40:08 PM
Not to open a can of worms but I've always wondered why Striped Bass is the only gamefish (that i can think of)  that's not protected during their spawning season.

Fluke , flounder, redfish, snook, sea bass, blackfish, Salmon, freshwater bass and trout seasons are all closed when the species spawns. Just food for thought.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 24, 2012, 07:19:36 AM
probably because the only time ther not past 3 miles in the ocean is during there spawn


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: ChrisL on June 24, 2012, 07:33:53 AM
Not to open a can of worms but I've always wondered why Striped Bass is the only gamefish (that i can think of)  that's not protected during their spawning season.

Fluke , flounder, redfish, snook, sea bass, blackfish, Salmon, freshwater bass and trout seasons are all closed when the species spawns. Just food for thought.

The regulations are modified for spawning waters, back bays and rivers.  Locally, the regs for the Delaware river are designed around spawning season. 
There's no saying that the fish cooperate with when and where the scientist say they should spawn. 


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 24, 2012, 09:36:05 AM
There's no saying that the fish cooperate with when and where the scientist say they should spawn. 

Which is why a slot limit with a trophy tag would be beneficial.  That way no matter what happens with timing the 20-40lb egg laden females would have to be released. That in combination with getting the gill nets out of the chesapeake and keeping closer tabs or cutting harvest all together  for the VA and NC commercial guys where these fish often winter. In other words gamefish status, just like Florida did to get redfish to rebound and stay that way. Yeh it sucks for the commercial guys trying to make a living but they have proven themselves in the past to be irresponsible with acts such as high grading when they were only allowed 50 fish ( another extremely stupid regulation) vs weight quota. Also if anyone can explain how placing gill nets in the spawning grounds is a sustainable practice, I would love to hear it.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: bassnblues on June 24, 2012, 10:18:36 AM
I think Florida and to some extent the rest of the Gulf states get it. No nets within 3 miles, spawn season closures, one per year tags to kill some gamefish...And they arguable have the most thriving recreational charter/guide industry of anywhere.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: overbite on June 24, 2012, 12:51:49 PM
 I have said before I am 71 and have fished since I could walk. along with 4 generations of family. My family has been water related and still is. From The Net Surf fishing boats along the NJ beaches. To the birth of party boats and recreational fishing to today. I have seen feast and famine times of plenty. Regulations Come and go some good, some bad, some made by Knee Jerking. some by luck.  As technology gets better both for Commercial and sport fishermen Laws and regulations are a Must. But Politics play a big part of it all. Many Fish run in Cycles such as Blow fish, Weakfish to name a few. But many have been exploited _ Bunker, Striped Bass, Flounder , Mackerel, Herring,  and so on. But a few regulations were put in place and some results have been made. Their is no love relationship between Sport and Commercial By Commercial I mean any income derived from fishing period, Who has the most money behind them. But Voting is stronger, With all of the so called fishing interest groups preaching They have your interest as #1 is BS they first fill their pockets and only pander to their interests.
If this was not True why are there still pots on the artificial reefs. Paid for Thu Rec. Funds. Where is all the Fed. ex-size tax on all sporting goods and fuel going and being divided, NJ is on the bottom of that heap.  Answers are hard to come by but OPINIONS are of no Shortage. The bunker boats were moved off. Striped Bass made a Game Fish IN NJ.The non US boats have been moved Off. And that again is another story on How The US boats used a loophole and Caught and sold at sea the same fish they wanted protected.  Anyone remember or heard about The Porgy Pirates In The Raritan Bay,
And how they wiped out that fishery. Sorry for the rant  ::). But Lots of Luck and Vote .
Bill 


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: IKAT on June 24, 2012, 01:17:39 PM
I have said before I am 71 and have fished since I could walk. along with 4 generations of family. My family has been water related and still is. From The Net Surf fishing boats along the NJ beaches. To the birth of party boats and recreational fishing to today. I have seen feast and famine times of plenty. Regulations Come and go some good, some bad, some made by Knee Jerking. some by luck.  As technology gets better both for Commercial and sport fishermen Laws and regulations are a Must. But Politics play a big part of it all. Many Fish run in Cycles such as Blow fish, Weakfish to name a few. But many have been exploited _ Bunker, Striped Bass, Flounder , Mackerel, Herring,  and so on. But a few regulations were put in place and some results have been made. Their is no love relationship between Sport and Commercial By Commercial I mean any income derived from fishing period, Who has the most money behind them. But Voting is stronger, With all of the so called fishing interest groups preaching They have your interest as #1 is BS they first fill their pockets and only pander to their interests.
If this was not True why are there still pots on the artificial reefs. Paid for Thu Rec. Funds. Where is all the Fed. ex-size tax on all sporting goods and fuel going and being divided, NJ is on the bottom of that heap.  Answers are hard to come by but OPINIONS are of no Shortage. The bunker boats were moved off. Striped Bass made a Game Fish IN NJ.The non US boats have been moved Off. And that again is another story on How The US boats used a loophole and Caught and sold at sea the same fish they wanted protected.  Anyone remember or heard about The Porgy Pirates In The Raritan Bay,
And how they wiped out that fishery. Sorry for the rant  ::). But Lots of Luck and Vote .
Bill 




Bill you know when the DRAGGERS were stopped in th RB as well as I do--you remember --NO Lights at night 


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: IKAT on June 24, 2012, 02:04:07 PM
 thud  OK Have to add my .02  5hrug

I think on this subject ALL the states have to be involved that are part of the whole biomass of stripers that we are looking at. As far as NJ goes on the regs. (and I never condoned NJ for taxes etc.) I think they did a good job on the regs. since 1913--see pics.

NOW-for the Charter boats-------I have NEVER-NEVER met one that wasn't worried about the fish stocks(and I know a lot)(full time or part time) and would ever take anyhing above the quota for the trip.

OK--C&R--I will never condone C&R --AFTER--you have your limit---------SO to the guys that go for C&R--what is the purpose????
If I shoot a deer and wound it--I should just let it die???--If I can't find it--NO sometimes takes hours to track it--BUT it is harvested...........
In the water try and track a fish you through back   >:(


BTW in the regs shown  --Years ago we had TROPHY TAGS--THAT WERE METAL---and you can see when that started

And YES it started when the INFLUX of people into the"GARDEN STATE" happened

And for the younger generations that moved to NJ--- They were called GARDEN APARTMENTS--CONDOS--and never stopped    :headscra:



Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: ChrisL on June 24, 2012, 03:12:53 PM
I have to agree that boxing a limit from the start and then switching to C&R doesn't make sense.  What happens when you have a legal limit in the box and then get a fish that can't be revived during the C&R session?
Granted, if done properly, C&R fishing causes little harm to the fish.  Evidence of this is the number of previously tagged fish that are caught again months or years later. Yes, there will be times when the fish is gut hooked, etc. and those are the exception, but it does happen. 


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 24, 2012, 03:16:43 PM
I dont keep any stripers i release them all. So if i dont keep my limit i shouldnt fish :headscra: or are you saying that i can cnr because i dont keep any and if i do gut one or he dont make it i can keep that one ???


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: bassnblues on June 24, 2012, 03:20:12 PM
C&R has been a common practice in many types of fishing for many years. Many very healthy fisheries are almost completely C&R.

It's the killing part that needs careful management.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 24, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
 t^ thanks


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: overbite on June 24, 2012, 04:13:12 PM
 grtn I for one have nothing but circle Hooks I stopped using all others 12 years or more ago. I even helped start them for fly fishing. and met with  nts I can not remember the last gut hooked fish, if even for 1, I also have been C&R for 10 or more years now I even passed this along to my grand son ^ years old and a proven fisher boy. ask any one at the Spy House Pier, Rosie has mentored him also. Shes a Legend at the pier and around, May I suggest the use of a circle hook or to make it Mandatory for all game fish, chrz Bill


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 24, 2012, 05:48:05 PM
Many Fish run in Cycles such as Blow fish, Weakfish to name a few. But many have been exploited


All recreational and commercially important species are cyclical. We overfish them thinking wow there is a great fishery here. Then we wonder why stocks decline and regulate the hell out of them to bring them back. It is stupid. Don't tell me weakfish aren't around anymore because they are in a natural down cycle. They are commercially overfished the same way flounder were/are. The more breeding class fish more eggs, the more eggs more fry, more fry means more eventual breeding class fish. It's really not that complicated but all the different stakes make it complicated


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 25, 2012, 05:31:38 AM
Weakfish whats that :headscra: Havent seen one in RB in years. There all over barnegat.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 25, 2012, 10:52:01 AM
Weakfish whats that :headscra: Havent seen one in RB in years. There all over barnegat.

I grew up fishing barneget. And stil do. That fishery is not a fraction of what it once was.  Sure you can float a sandworm or bounce a fin-s and catch some little guys now but not in the numbers or size they used to be. It's a shame. They fill a great inshore niche for the saltwater angler


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: captainbailey on June 25, 2012, 07:08:03 PM
I've haven't caught a weakie in 3 years targeting them exclusively in the summer nights on Barnegat Bay, only by mistake whether fluking or bassing later in the fall.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: overbite on June 25, 2012, 07:51:53 PM
 :headscra:Now In all do Respect. Lets start with Blow fish That's a easy one There was a time that they were so thick that they devastated the crabs in Barnagate Bay and great Bay. Crabbing for the next 6 years was mute. That was 54 years ago. >:( Then Manasquan Inlet was so packed with them The boats going had such vibration they soon found out The blow fish were so thick that just ground them up. some 48 more or less years ago. >:(. They have never came back in the numbers they once were. And no commercial fishing to blame  >:( Pollution is thought to blame 5hrug.
Now Weak Fish some 50 years ago they were hard to find Great bay was one place they were found. We fished for them by the Stinky, we rented a 1 lounger at Rands U Drive, used Grass shrimp for chum And whole Med shrimp with thread wound around them on the hook with jumbo cork Bobber's Drifted far from the boat they hate Noise >:( And still do. Then We fished Romer shoal ( Blood or sand worms of the bottom for them 30 or so years ago and still today but you have to be there at 3am for them once motor noise or other boats start showing up they stopped biting. They are also of the keyport flats but most are breeders females, loaded with eggs I caught many from my Kayak up to 3 years ago when I sold the Kayak.  >:( Also Spanish Mackerel same area.  cfzd. The commercial fishery for them was and still is  Cape May where they fish  :headscra: 5hrug.
Stripers were far and few 40 and more and less years ago and Their was a Commercial  fishery for them, All along the coast from Main to Virginia, They kept them all. But It was the removal of the Bunker reduction boats , And the building of bunker schools That brought them Back with along with Laws & Regulations. As for the rest, its a fight to regulate and Clean up The waters.  clp There are Natural Cycles that govern them But Man, Pollution, over fishing plays its part.  chrz Bill


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: overbite on June 25, 2012, 07:54:28 PM
 smk Hey Big Al there in your front yard No kidding, and I am talking Very large ones. Bill


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 25, 2012, 11:03:04 PM
:headscra:Now In all do Respect. Lets start with Blow fish That's a easy one There was a time that they were so thick that they devastated the crabs in Barnagate Bay and great Bay. Crabbing for the next 6 years was mute. That was 54 years ago. >:( Then Manasquan Inlet was so packed with them The boats going had such vibration they soon found out The blow fish were so thick that just ground them up. some 48 more or less years ago. >:(. They have never came back in the numbers they once were. And no commercial fishing to blame  >:( Pollution is thought to blame 5hrug.
Now Weak Fish some 50 years ago they were hard to find Great bay was one place they were found. We fished for them by the Stinky, we rented a 1 lounger at Rands U Drive, used Grass shrimp for chum And whole Med shrimp with thread wound around them on the hook with jumbo cork Bobber's Drifted far from the boat they hate Noise >:( And still do. Then We fished Romer shoal ( Blood or sand worms of the bottom for them 30 or so years ago and still today but you have to be there at 3am for them once motor noise or other boats start showing up they stopped biting. They are also of the keyport flats but most are breeders females, loaded with eggs I caught many from my Kayak up to 3 years ago when I sold the Kayak.  >:( Also Spanish Mackerel same area.  cfzd. The commercial fishery for them was and still is  Cape May where they fish  :headscra: 5hrug.
Stripers were far and few 40 and more and less years ago and Their was a Commercial  fishery for them, All along the coast from Main to Virginia, They kept them all. But It was the removal of the Bunker reduction boats , And the building of bunker schools That brought them Back with along with Laws & Regulations. As for the rest, its a fight to regulate and Clean up The waters.  clp There are Natural Cycles that govern them But Man, Pollution, over fishing plays its part.  chrz Bill

I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make.  :headscra:  Weakfish were taken for granted. Winter flounder were taken for granted. Whiting were taken for granted. Bunker were taken for granted.  Hell, even blackfish fishing sucks compared to years ago. IMO this unbelievable bass fishery we have had the past couple of years is destined to crash. Florida has it right with their gamefish. Too bad most people up here have to justify the cost of fishing by taking home close to a hundred pounds of a mediocre tasting fish per angler per day. Unfortunaty these trophy sized fish are also the breeding sized fish. The law says its ok so who am I to complain anyway. But god forbid I see someone kill a bass and throw it away or leave it dead on the rocks for a bigger one  nosmly


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 26, 2012, 06:01:12 AM
Plain and simple way to put it is, "Limit your kill, Don't kill your limit." Catching and keeping for table-fare is a way of life on the NJ cost as it has been since the Lenape's. The problem is not the hand full of  charter captains that do well and prove it with deck shots. Its IMO the dead waste from catch by product of the trawlers. Easy way to replenish all the fisherys is make commercial guys rod and reel only for a year or two. The biomass would thrive and it would take alot of the "Easy Money guys out of the game. 5hrug


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: overbite on June 26, 2012, 07:50:56 AM
 whs whs whs whs whs whs whs whs whs whs whs


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: overbite on June 26, 2012, 08:07:18 AM
Fish ON My point is that not all fishery problems are catch related, As history has proved, But Regulations do help them recover.
Commercial Fishing has done damage big time just with poaching and loop holes, along with uncontrollable limits. and By catching, Maybe you are a lot younger and have little knowledge of what has happened over the years, and only know what you read today by so called conservationist and money grabbing groups of so called friends of the Fishermen. Its called divide and conquer.
Nature works on reproduction based on Food and habitat,and yes Over population.  Both on land and Sea. Its not rocket science.  Bill     


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 26, 2012, 10:00:40 AM
Maybe you are a lot younger and have little knowledge of what has happened over the years, and only know what you read today by so called conservationist and money grabbing groups of so called friends of the Fishermen.  Its not rocket science. 

Maybe a lot younger as i do not know your age but please do not mistake my youth for me being naive. I hold degrees is environmental policy and coastal zone management (though I do not currently earn a living in these fields). I grew up in what once were the very healthy salt marshes of Barneget bay and have fished our waters for about 25 years. I was also fortunate enough to spend a lot of time in southeast florida when i was younger so i have witnessed how the bans of certain commercial gear as well as how the proactive regulations for recreational fisherman has minimized the the up and down cycles you refer to. I also know how to "research" and not cite a single sided interest group. 


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 26, 2012, 10:08:29 AM
smk Hey Big Al there in your front yard No kidding, and I am talking Very large ones. Bill


use to be literally 1000 feet from my front yard but they just havent showed up


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 26, 2012, 10:13:00 AM
Plain and simple way to put it is, "Limit your kill, Don't kill your limit." Catching and keeping for table-fare is a way of life on the NJ cost as it has been since the Lenape's. The problem is not the hand full of  charter captains that do well and prove it with deck shots. Its IMO the dead waste from catch by product of the trawlers. Easy way to replenish all the fisherys is make commercial guys rod and reel only for a year or two. The biomass would thrive and it would take alot of the "Easy Money guys out of the game. 5hrug

Bingo

But let me ask you this. When you go crabbing and you pull up a nice big female loaded with eggs (sponge crab). What do you do with her? Law says has to be released but non egg laden females are allowable. Now take striped bass where we know fish of a certain age and size are all females. Though we can not physically see the eggs in her belly, we know when she typically spawning ( but this can vary depending on temps).  So we release egg laden crabs, can not keep fluke, sea bass,  and blackfish during spawning periods, but stripers are being commcercial harvested and heavily fished recreationally during their entire spawning migration up and down the east coast.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 26, 2012, 10:55:11 AM
me personally I dont keep any female crabs, sexing a male vs. female striper is far harder. The entire spawning process from early spring to late fall by time they make it up river to there thing and return to the ocean, so in order to stop egg laiden females from being harvested either the would have to wear dresses or call us when there done. I understand where your coming from its hard to stop that, also if you know about there spawning habits then you know why they head up river. But in case you dont its because they want to lay there eggs in fresh water because the salinity eats the shells. Now on most of the branches and tribituarys of the hudson river the closest fresh water to the NJ ocean is Poughkeepsie NY. Making it nearly impossible for the stripers to get to fresh water with all the dams and reservoirs, And yet they still manage to spawn in abundant numbers. So what Im saying is there a pretty resilient fish, and though I don't condone it I cant see how the rec captains are hurting the biomass with deck shots :headscra:


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: bassnblues on June 26, 2012, 11:24:11 AM
I think we all agreed that rec capts and thier customers shouldn't be faulted for obeying the law.

Speaking for myself, I'd like to see more protection for stripers with tighter regs.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 26, 2012, 11:25:53 AM
I'm not dogging anyone for keeping their limit or making a living. I just think that is an outdated style of photo that reduces a beautiful gamefish to an ugly pile of blood scales and slime. Doesnt capture the excitement of raising a big fish on top water or free lining a 2lb bait. Just some constructive criticism there. ( I don't actually really care what anyone does as it doesn't affect me)

Time will tell what happens to striper stocks. My feeling is why wait until they crash, if that is even a possibility (which it is), to protect them. I know the charter and party boat Capts feel the same for the most part cause if bass fishing sucks in may and June and then october through December, then what are these guys going to be able to target?  It's not just Nj that these fish face daily pressure. It's their entire south to north and back migration.  When faced with the possibilities (such as weakfish status), catch and release fishing with the big girls and taking home one or two 5-10 pound stripers per person doesn't sound all that bad.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 26, 2012, 11:39:55 AM
so in order to stop egg laiden females from being harvested either the would have to wear dresses or call us when there done.

Or we implement a slot limit  cfzd  ;D


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 26, 2012, 11:41:51 AM
Well what do you consider a big girls, because a 10lb striper isnt even a keeper :headscra:


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 26, 2012, 11:45:31 AM
so in order to stop egg laiden females from being harvested either the would have to wear dresses or call us when there done.

Or we implement a slot limit  cfzd  ;D


Ok so propose what you feel would be an ideal bag, size, and slot limit, even give me a season length so I may better understand where your going with this.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 26, 2012, 12:01:59 PM
Well what do you consider a big girls, because a 10lb striper isnt even a keeper :headscra:

I had a 8lb on a boga measure 28.5" . Here is what I, a simple fisherman who fishes for enjoyment whether I catch or not and has spent some time on the water, would like to see.

For the entire striper coast not just nj:
1 fish at 20-30" per angler per day (there's your male fish)
1 fish greater than 48" per angler per day (there is your trophy)
Same season closure as it is now for backwaters (provides some pressure relief
Same 3 mile and out closure ( gives fish a safe zone)

This protects the 30-48" breeding class. Not the male fish or the dusty old females.

I would also like to all commercial fishing to be hook and line. I really hate gill nets. They got them out of Florida waters and it made a difference.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 26, 2012, 01:23:31 PM
I see why you say that but I dont agree. Male and females stripers age to length ratio is very close.Male stripers reach sexual maturity around age 2-3, @ 3 years old these fish are 20" long at age 7 there about 30" and usually stop spawning around 11 which is about 37". Females reach maturity from 4-8+ and stop usually around 15 which puts them from 25"-46" plus fisf under 6 yrs dont usually migrate


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: bassnblues on June 26, 2012, 01:48:02 PM
I lived in Md for a couple of years in the '90's. These were the regs

- one fish at 18" to 24"
- one trophy tag per angler per year over 48".
- Closure in the Spring. I don't remember when the opener was but I remember productive C&R on bucktails in May.




Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: IKAT on June 26, 2012, 02:27:06 PM
As I have said OVER AND OVER AGAIN

No matter what regs. you have will not do any good to really know the TRUE stats of fish being taken--until you have LEOS at every port-dock-etc. to check--and you know that won't happen.

To answer my own question about where the bonus tag money goes to Well -- a small percentage goes to the striped bass sector of the F&G and the majority goes to a second party company that issues the tags online.

Now--as far as TRUE anglers--I think we need to POLICE ourselves as as to other anglers (OR NOT SO OTHER ANGLERS)--NOW the worst part of this is--and I really regret posting this--but when the week-end "angler" comes in with a cooler full of fish---And have seen this many-many-many --times and they ask who's taking the fish home--NONE ICED and dumped in the dumster--when 6-7-8 people say I don't want them--THIS is what makes me sick --stop this too--???????????

when getting your boating PERMIT--there should be a fish managing section--1--yes 1 violation no-boat-no--fishing--clause.--If the fines for illeagle fishing/boating were harder--there will be less of all this CRAP......
With all the people on the water in NJ--I would like to see the same as NJ driving --PAY to take a boating permit and a test on the water--and the monies from that go to fisheries management.

BUT the bottom line is STILL INFORCEMENT

IKAT on 65-68 and monitor all channels   t^


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: overbite on June 26, 2012, 03:25:11 PM
FISH ON  5hrug First My Age is 71 as I have said in many posts, been fishing in New Jersey all my Life, And Hunting, I have been very active for all those years. In all aspects of fishing, and Methods. My father, Grandfather, Uncles, mentored me, I have lived by the ocean all my life also. And seen things Come and go,  t^
BUT Now YOU show your colors  thud and lost my respect for you, your degrees are worthless if you learned anything you don't show it.  5hrug

 What do I MEAN ( Quote )  fcp fcp fcp Your words not Mine.
(QUOTE) ( I DON'T ACTUALLY CARE WHAT ANYONE DOES AS IT DOESN'T AFFECT ME )  rgmn rgmn rgmn w


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 26, 2012, 03:45:47 PM
This thread really got out of context fcp. Guess there's a thin line between opinions and facts, and to some people facts are offensive and to some people opinions are offensive and then there's the people who get offended by somebody's opinion on a fact  fcp


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 26, 2012, 05:10:57 PM
FISH ON  5hrug First My Age is 71 as I have said in many posts, been fishing in New Jersey all my Life, And Hunting, I have been very active for all those years. In all aspects of fishing, and Methods. My father, Grandfather, Uncles, mentored me, I have lived by the ocean all my life also. And seen things Come and go,  t^
BUT Now YOU show your colors  thud and lost my respect for you, your degrees are worthless if you learned anything you don't show it.  5hrug

 What do I MEAN ( Quote )  fcp fcp fcp Your words not Mine.
(QUOTE) ( I DON'T ACTUALLY CARE WHAT ANYONE DOES AS IT DOESN'T AFFECT ME )  rgmn rgmn rgmn w

I was referring to the photo when i said it doesnt affect me. Dont quote me out of context. And don't edit my quotes by CAPing them either. I wouldnt spend my time debating this topic with someone i never met if i didnt think fish stocks and regulations affected me.

 See now one thing my education taught me was when writing you break your thoughts into paragraphs. See when i said it doesn't affect me I was still in the "I personally, IN MY OPINION, do not like the stacked limit pile of dead fish, a species that was once scarce, that we all claim to love and respect, photo paragraph. It was just an aside with little to do with the actual original post.

That's ok though, i really dont care if you respect me or not.  Im sure you are a wealth of local knowledge, but you have some of the most scatter brained posts out there. It's so hard to read through your random observations (which seeminlgly is all they are as are mine) that I still have no idea what stance you take.  


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 26, 2012, 05:15:26 PM
oh boy, havent you guys heard about the boat out of pp keeping illegal sea bass?


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 26, 2012, 05:23:02 PM
oh boy, havent you guys heard about the boat out of pp keeping illegal sea bass?

Ugh don't get me started  ;)


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Kenny on June 26, 2012, 05:25:52 PM
Come on guys...this is a great thread and topic...

but

Let's keep it cool and not get personal here...no finger pointing, name calling and or insults...fine to state your beliefs and opinions but respect others as well...

That's what separates us from many other fishing boards...we can have a debate with out the fist fighting in the parking lot....

Thanks... ;D


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 26, 2012, 06:06:49 PM
He started it..... :P   ;D


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Kenny on June 26, 2012, 07:01:18 PM
 ;D

Just saying....we're all friends here...

I just don't want this thread to go down a nasty dirt road if you guys know what I mean..  ;D


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: bassnblues on June 26, 2012, 07:02:42 PM
Thread went on a long time without a fight...

Now how about a nice calm SW fishing license discussion?


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Andys Delight on June 26, 2012, 07:57:53 PM
The surest way to never correct the issue is to have recreational fisherman battling with each other instead of the real problem.  The battle lies with the commercial fisheries and the mountains of flawed data being used to set the rules.  While we sit here and argue about whether a charter guy should advertise that he catches fish for his clients with pictures, boats are netting huge amounts of bunker and killing by catch that makes what the charter guys take laughable in comparison.  Tuna pens are holding millions of tuna in captivity to fatten them up for the slaughter.  Pots are all over our reefs.  It goes on and on.  

Fighting with each other is nonsense, especially guys on this forum.  People who frequent this site, charter or recreational, do so because they are the few that are passionate about the sport.  We are the ones who actually give a damn.  I woud be willing to bet pretty much everyone on this site has NEVER taken an illegal fish.  The charters guys livelihood depends on a healthy fishery.  They can only follow the laws that are in place and need to advertise.  I know one thing, if I were for some reason needing to go out on a charter I know exactly which ones I would choose.  I'll decide what I do with my legal catch whether I keep or release, but you can bet I'm going with the charters that catch fish and prove it regularly with.......pictures of fish.



Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: FishOn on June 26, 2012, 09:06:55 PM
Thread went on a long time without a fight...

Now how about a nice calm SW fishing license discussion?

 clp you owe me a keyboard


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Kenny on June 26, 2012, 09:39:34 PM
 rofla rofla


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Hotrod on June 26, 2012, 10:10:23 PM
Thread went on a long time without a fight...

Now how about a nice calm SW fishing license discussion?
t^


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: BigAl13 on June 27, 2012, 07:25:01 AM
Kenny gets my vote for the noble


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: Spearfish on June 27, 2012, 08:58:47 AM
 I'll decide what I do with my legal catch whether I keep or release, but you can bet I'm going with the charters that catch fish and prove it regularly with.......pictures of fish.


[/quote]

Nicely said.


Title: Re: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !
Post by: overbite on June 27, 2012, 09:04:02 AM
 whs whs whs whs whs whs whs whs whs whs
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