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[Capt. Carl]

i see your point capt jerry,

but lets face it, i would not want to be restricted to 3 miles within the beach for those fish....u know raritan bay is dead as hell sometimes...and we have to run out to the mud bouy  for bluefish....and in april, may and june...there is a nice bottom mix out at the scotland....6.7 miles off the hook.

as a business, i would never restrict myself to have to stay inside 3 miles . thats why i got the permit in the first place

[Capt -Jerry P]

i see your point capt jerry,

but lets face it, i would not want to be restricted to 3 miles within the beach for those fish....u know raritan bay is dead as hell sometimes...and we have to run out to the mud bouy  for bluefish....and in april, may and june...there is a nice bottom mix out at the scotland....6.7 miles off the hook.

as a business, i would never restrict myself to have to stay inside 3 miles . thats why i got the permit in the first place

i hear ya

But as of now (present)

we are give up the best fall bottomfishing for a few trips ling trips to scotland in april?

the whole rest of the year we caught our seabass, inside 3 miles (June- oct)

Blues have been on the rocks/bay all year

Just saying i am rethinking it i might rather be retsritced... than not able to fish at all

Trying to see about rules about turning it in  and if you can reapply for it in the new year?

[Capt. Carl]

yeah i heat that....but i know damn well they wont let anyone turn in what they have  on that permit.....this is one big cluster f...

 

[CaptTB]

Ok folks, hold the presses.

Sorry for the delay, but we have been working on this issue for the last 2 weeks (yes, BEFORE the closure was announced) and since the announcement as you can imagine I have been kinda busy.

First, ANY party or charterboat that wishes to fish for Fluke, Scup, Sea Bass, Bluefish, Flounder, Ground fish or multispecies (see cod, pollock, hake, ling, whiting, etc.) outside the 3 mile line MUST have a permit. If you NEVER intend on fishing outside the 3 mile line then you do not need a party/charter permit.

As of Monday, ALL FISHING for sea bass by recreational fishermen will be prohibited outside the 3 mile line. No one, not private or party or charter boat fishermen will be allowed to land sea bass outside 3 miles.

If you are a federal permit holder, you MUST abide by the more stringent rule, REGARDLESS of where you fish. So, even fishing in the river for a species that is only closed outside 3 miles would be prohibited to a party/charter permit holder.


Unless you drop the Sea Bass endorsement on your permit.

Which many of us have already done.

This happened years ago with fluke and more recently with scup. As of this time, the endorsement can be added back to your permit at any time. (although who knows how long that will last)


Second:  THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE STATE OF NJ. Any letters and e-mails sent to our state officials is a waste of time, OUR STATE VOTED AGAINST CLOSING SEA BASS in state waters.

This was a federal action taken by the National Marine Fisheries Service and has absolutely nothing to do with the state. In fact, harassing the state about this mean yelling at the people who sided with the fishermen!

Lastly:  This is happening for several reasons, the most important of which is because we were given a quota for next year based on the information that the Sea Bass stock is overfished, overfishing is occurring and the stock is still in need of rebuilding.

As of THIS YEAR that is NO LONGER TRUE. The latest scientific information that came from the recent data poor workshop has declared that Sea Bass are currently at 103% of their rebuilt level, actually they have been for nearly a decade and the retrospective analysis for the last 10 years has been wrong, and that the stock IS NOT OVERFISHED.

However, the recently reauthorized Magnuson-Stevens Act states that the Council and Service may not set quotas higher than what the SSC (Science and Statistical Committee) dictates.

At the August MAFMC meeting the SSC gave their recommendation to set the quota at the same level as 2009 based on the information available. taht information was the previous data that said the stock was not rebuilt and was overfished. When asked if they used the new information the answer was NO.

Attempts to get the MAFMC to send Sea Bass back to the SSC and use the new information failed.

here is an excerpt from the recent JCAA press release: " This year, when it was time to set the quota for 2010, the black sea bass quota was set by the Scientific and Statistical Committee (SSC) before the Monitoring Committee of the MAMFC and ASMFC met. The SSC decided to go with status quo even though the latest approved stock assessment showed that the stocks were no longer being over fished. The Monitoring Committee met after the SSC and realized that the quota they set for 2009 was based on the condition that black sea bass was overfished and overfishing was taking place. With this new information, the Monitoring Committee recommended an increase in the quota. At the joint meeting, we questioned the SSC about whether or not they had considered the same new information discussed by the Monitoring Committee when they set the quota at status quo. The response was that they had not. I made a motion asking the Monitoring Committee and SSC to hold a conference call to discuss this issue and see if there was a possibility of increasing the quota based on the available information. After a long discussion, the MAMFC voted a 10/10 tie so the motion did not move forward. The excuse given by the Council Chairman and Vice Chairman was that this would set a bad precedent. What it showed me was the callousness of these individuals relative to the needs of the recreational and commercial fishing industries? This is a new process and mistakes will be made. Until we resolve the procedural matters, there should be no problem revisiting decisions in the best interest of all concerned. For 10 council members, it wasn't important to make sure all information and recommendations were considered before final decisions were made.

[Capt -Jerry P]

As always Thanks Capt Tony

That answered exactly what i was thinking and wondering...

[Bucktail]

Thank you for clearing up the confusion Captain!

[Capt. Mike]

Thank you Capt. Tony 

[Pfishingruven]

Thanks for the info Capt!

Unfortunately, it doesn't fix the problem for some.  GAF, I would be just as mad and angry as you are if my vacation was essentially ruined by a last quarter of the year closure !  Maybe the Stripers will be in full run by then and you can switch up your game plan and stay close to LBI ?  Good luck.

 

[CaptTB]

Thanks for the info Capt!

Unfortunately, it doesn't fix the problem for some.  GAF, I would be just as mad and angry as you are if my vacation was essentially ruined by a last quarter of the year closure !  Maybe the Stripers will be in full run by then and you can switch up your game plan and stay close to LBI ?  Good luck.

 

I'd argue it doesn't fix a damn thing! There are several courses of action that are underway and another that may happen next week, but in the end it will be what it will be. The only thing I can tell people is those of us that fight these fights are fighting this one with the same effort and determination we always have. Your support is appreciated, but we will fight regardless of who fights with us or against us, as we always have.

Hopefully....... more to come on this topic shortly.

[HutchJr]

The Great American Fisherman and I have had a couple of email conversations – he seems hell bent on attacking the RFA as if we’re responsible for the fact that our president has appointed a former Pew fellow to head up NOAA (and has hired two former Pew staffers to sit in NOAA administrative positions).

It’s nearly impossible for a NJ gun owner to carry a registered handgun in this state; is that the fault of the NRA?  Or perhaps the NRA has helped ensure that law-abiding New Jersey citizens are allowed to own a handgun whatsoever.

I’d ask folks to visit the RFA homepage – in three different news sections on the homepage are answers in part to “why” we are suffering in the recreational community, and “what” the RFA is doing about it presently.  There’s strength in numbers and we need unity to attack the preservationists who are jamming an agenda down our throats. 

Visit www.joinrfa.org – sorry, I don’t have time to argue about specifics; I didn’t vote for all the legislators currently holding office, but I know they’re the ones I have to go to for help.  RFA is working with business owners and anglers from Maine to the Carolinas in an effort to get something going with this ridiculous closure, and I hope you all can help.

NOAA IGNORES INPUT FROM RECREATIONAL FISHING COMMUNITY
“FATALLY FLAWED” DATA USED TO KEEP AMERICA FROM FISHING
As reported in the Asbury Park Press of New Jersey on October 2, the Recreational Fishing Alliance (RFA) is exploring legal options to block a federal shutdown of the black sea bass fishery along the Eastern Seaboard.  "This is unprecedented, absolutely unprecedented," RFA’s Jim Donofrio told the Press just hours after the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced its intention to close the fishery in federal waters of the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) from Cape Hatteras, NC north to the Hague Line in Maine beginning Monday, October 5 for a period of 180 days. 

NOAA’s decision to immediately close the sea bass fishery is based on the “best available information” coming from the recreational harvest surveys for 2009 which shows that recreational fishermen “may have” overharvested their allowable catch this season.  “It’s abuse on the part of the federal government to use this data for a complete shutdown,” Donofrio said, explaining that a precautionary approach would’ve been emergency bag limit restrictions, not a complete closure.  “NOAA has really showed their hand on this decision, making it quite clear of their disdain for our recreational industry,” Donofrio added.

The RFA points out that NOAA is basing its decision to close the fishery for the next six months on the latest trends coming from the Marine Recreational Fishing Statistical Surveys (MRFSS), a survey methodology called “fatally flawed” in a report by the National Research Council (NRC).  The RFA points to a position paper on their homepage at www.joinrfa.org as detailing the “serious flaws” in MRFSS according to the NRC report.  The congressional mandated peer review said specifically in 2006 that there were “inadequate analysis methods that need to be addressed immediately,” yet three years later the data is still being used as gospel harvest information on important coastal fisheries like summer flounder, scup and sea bass. 

In a letter to James Balsinger, Acting Assistant Administrator of the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) U.S. Representative Frank Pallone, senior member of the House Natural Resources Committee, and fellow New Jersey coastal congressman John Adler. said an emergency shutdown will hurt coastal economies at a difficult time, and insists there’s no need to take such drastic action on a rebuilt fishery such as sea bass. “We believe that using the Marine Recreational Fishing Statistical Survey (MRFSS) as the only tool in determining the shutdown of a fishery is severely flawed,” the New Jersey Congressmen said, while adding “in light of the fact that MRFSS is not the most accurate way to measure catch levels, NMFS should pursue new assessments that are more concise. The review should include industry data that can provide an index of fishing activity.”

While the NRC has previously stated that industry data like fuel sales, tax records, marine receipts or even NOAA’s own weather data should be used at least to help validate the MRFSS data, the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) through NOAA is still incapable or unwilling to recognize this information.  “You’ll see some conservation groups rally around closures like these based on the use of what’s called the best available science, but clearly science isn’t being recognized as some scientists have said it should,” said Donofrio.  “NOAA’s decision on black sea bass shows utter disdain for the fishing industry and blatantly ignores the findings from the National Academy of Sciences.”

RFA is currently collecting input from throughout the industry from New England through down through Carolinas, and is hoping to lead the charge for a federal injunction to stop the closure.  However, fishing advocates have acknowledged that it’s going to be a tough week of rallying for support, and there may be no way to protect against the emergency closure taking place on Monday.  While coastal waters from 0 to 3 miles will remain open for the sea bass fishery next week, those federal permit holders will be forced to immediately stop the harvest of sea bass.   

“We have to make sure that NMFS never does this again,” said Ray Bogan, legal counsel for the United Boatmen, a NY/NJ party and charter boat organization.  Bogan said that NOAA’s decision to use preliminary, as yet incomplete data from the recreational surveys from 2009 is an unheralded action on behalf of the federal fisheries service.  “This takes MRFSS even one step further than we’ve ever seen, as it uses the bad data before it’s even finished being compiled.”

Bogan points out that MRFSS data from March and April of this past season indicates that the private fishing fleet actually outfished the for-hire sector, a near impossibility considering that black sea bass are still at the offshore grounds at that time of year, from 30 to 50 miles from nearly any coastal inlet and most recreational boat owners have not even put their boats in for the season at that time. 

“We can all agree that sustainable fisheries are the most important goal.  However, to continue this assault on recreational fisheries with minimal results is not acceptable,” the Pallone/Adler letter concluded.

RFA is hoping to they can get enough buy-in from the for-hire sector and tackle industry within the next 3 to 5 days to move forward with attempts to get an emergency injunction, but recognize that the industry is already reeling from serious loss of business due to NOAA’s ever-tightening noose of regulatory efforts on other fisheries including summer flounder and scup.  “The fall sea bass fishery is a significant part of my business,” said Clark Evans from Old Inlet Bait and Tackle in Indian River, DE.  Evans, like most other tackle shop owners from New England through the Mid Atlantic region said sea bass are a sustaining part of the local business during times when summer flounder season is closed or other species like striped bass simply aren’t available.

“We have shops and captains we represent who were hoping to make up a couple of lost dollars through the next holiday season on a healthy and robust fall and winter sea bass fishery, so money’s not just tight, it’s just not there,” said Donofrio.  “Our new NOAA administrator has not only circumvented the management process and ignored the input from our industry, but it’s as if the Administration has turned her back entirely on the Bill of Rights and the 10th Amendment.” 

RFA has sent an official letter to Secretary of Commerce Gary Locke on behalf of members asking that MRFSS “not be used as the basis for real-time monitoring or in season adjustments to the recreational sector.”  Download letter at www.joinrfa.org/press/seabasslocke.pdf

[Capt -Jerry P]

The Great American Fisherman and I have had a couple of email conversations – he seems hell bent on attacking the RFA as if we’re responsible for the fact that our president has appointed a former Pew fellow to head up NOAA (and has hired two former Pew staffers to sit in NOAA administrative positions).

It’s nearly impossible for a NJ gun owner to carry a registered handgun in this state; is that the fault of the NRA?  Or perhaps the NRA has helped ensure that law-abiding New Jersey citizens are allowed to own a handgun whatsoever.

I’d ask folks to visit the RFA homepage – in three different news sections on the homepage are answers in part to “why” we are suffering in the recreational community, and “what” the RFA is doing about it presently.  There’s strength in numbers and we need unity to attack the preservationists who are jamming an agenda down our throats. 

Visit www.joinrfa.org – sorry, I don’t have time to argue about specifics; I didn’t vote for all the legislators currently holding office, but I know they’re the ones I have to go to for help.  RFA is working with business owners and anglers from Maine to the Carolinas in an effort to get something going with this ridiculous closure, and I hope you all can help.

NOAA IGNORES INPUT FROM RECREATIONAL FISHING COMMUNITY
“FATALLY FLAWED” DATA USED TO KEEP AMERICA FROM FISHING
As reported in the Asbury Park Press of New Jersey on October 2, the Recreational Fishing Alliance (RFA) is exploring legal options to block a federal shutdown of the black sea bass fishery along the Eastern Seaboard.  "This is unprecedented, absolutely unprecedented," RFA’s Jim Donofrio told the Press just hours after the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced its intention to close the fishery in federal waters of the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) from Cape Hatteras, NC north to the Hague Line in Maine beginning Monday, October 5 for a period of 180 days. 

NOAA’s decision to immediately close the sea bass fishery is based on the “best available information” coming from the recreational harvest surveys for 2009 which shows that recreational fishermen “may have” overharvested their allowable catch this season.  “It’s abuse on the part of the federal government to use this data for a complete shutdown,” Donofrio said, explaining that a precautionary approach would’ve been emergency bag limit restrictions, not a complete closure.  “NOAA has really showed their hand on this decision, making it quite clear of their disdain for our recreational industry,” Donofrio added.

The RFA points out that NOAA is basing its decision to close the fishery for the next six months on the latest trends coming from the Marine Recreational Fishing Statistical Surveys (MRFSS), a survey methodology called “fatally flawed” in a report by the National Research Council (NRC).  The RFA points to a position paper on their homepage at www.joinrfa.org as detailing the “serious flaws” in MRFSS according to the NRC report.  The congressional mandated peer review said specifically in 2006 that there were “inadequate analysis methods that need to be addressed immediately,” yet three years later the data is still being used as gospel harvest information on important coastal fisheries like summer flounder, scup and sea bass. 

In a letter to James Balsinger, Acting Assistant Administrator of the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) U.S. Representative Frank Pallone, senior member of the House Natural Resources Committee, and fellow New Jersey coastal congressman John Adler. said an emergency shutdown will hurt coastal economies at a difficult time, and insists there’s no need to take such drastic action on a rebuilt fishery such as sea bass. “We believe that using the Marine Recreational Fishing Statistical Survey (MRFSS) as the only tool in determining the shutdown of a fishery is severely flawed,” the New Jersey Congressmen said, while adding “in light of the fact that MRFSS is not the most accurate way to measure catch levels, NMFS should pursue new assessments that are more concise. The review should include industry data that can provide an index of fishing activity.”

While the NRC has previously stated that industry data like fuel sales, tax records, marine receipts or even NOAA’s own weather data should be used at least to help validate the MRFSS data, the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) through NOAA is still incapable or unwilling to recognize this information.  “You’ll see some conservation groups rally around closures like these based on the use of what’s called the best available science, but clearly science isn’t being recognized as some scientists have said it should,” said Donofrio.  “NOAA’s decision on black sea bass shows utter disdain for the fishing industry and blatantly ignores the findings from the National Academy of Sciences.”

RFA is currently collecting input from throughout the industry from New England through down through Carolinas, and is hoping to lead the charge for a federal injunction to stop the closure.  However, fishing advocates have acknowledged that it’s going to be a tough week of rallying for support, and there may be no way to protect against the emergency closure taking place on Monday.  While coastal waters from 0 to 3 miles will remain open for the sea bass fishery next week, those federal permit holders will be forced to immediately stop the harvest of sea bass.   

“We have to make sure that NMFS never does this again,” said Ray Bogan, legal counsel for the United Boatmen, a NY/NJ party and charter boat organization.  Bogan said that NOAA’s decision to use preliminary, as yet incomplete data from the recreational surveys from 2009 is an unheralded action on behalf of the federal fisheries service.  “This takes MRFSS even one step further than we’ve ever seen, as it uses the bad data before it’s even finished being compiled.”

Bogan points out that MRFSS data from March and April of this past season indicates that the private fishing fleet actually outfished the for-hire sector, a near impossibility considering that black sea bass are still at the offshore grounds at that time of year, from 30 to 50 miles from nearly any coastal inlet and most recreational boat owners have not even put their boats in for the season at that time. 

“We can all agree that sustainable fisheries are the most important goal.  However, to continue this assault on recreational fisheries with minimal results is not acceptable,” the Pallone/Adler letter concluded.

RFA is hoping to they can get enough buy-in from the for-hire sector and tackle industry within the next 3 to 5 days to move forward with attempts to get an emergency injunction, but recognize that the industry is already reeling from serious loss of business due to NOAA’s ever-tightening noose of regulatory efforts on other fisheries including summer flounder and scup.  “The fall sea bass fishery is a significant part of my business,” said Clark Evans from Old Inlet Bait and Tackle in Indian River, DE.  Evans, like most other tackle shop owners from New England through the Mid Atlantic region said sea bass are a sustaining part of the local business during times when summer flounder season is closed or other species like striped bass simply aren’t available.

“We have shops and captains we represent who were hoping to make up a couple of lost dollars through the next holiday season on a healthy and robust fall and winter sea bass fishery, so money’s not just tight, it’s just not there,” said Donofrio.  “Our new NOAA administrator has not only circumvented the management process and ignored the input from our industry, but it’s as if the Administration has turned her back entirely on the Bill of Rights and the 10th Amendment.” 

RFA has sent an official letter to Secretary of Commerce Gary Locke on behalf of members asking that MRFSS “not be used as the basis for real-time monitoring or in season adjustments to the recreational sector.”  Download letter at www.joinrfa.org/press/seabasslocke.pdf

Thanks for the Info

Justed talked and had a good conversation with John From RFA and He said they are working Very hard with the United boatsmen and other organizations to fix this unfair mess...

But they need help now more than ever!!!

Pass it along!!!

[Fishin Dude]

What kind of help ? Letters, E-Mails,CASH ??  If this infromation was available 2 weeks ago to some privileged groups, should they not have sought help from the masses then? <'((((><

[Great American Fisherman]

First, Thank You Fishin Dude.

Second:  That RFA guy trashes me and said I trashed him.  All i said is "RFA asks for money".  They do.  So does the United Way.  So does The Imus Ranch for Kids with Cancer and so does Jerry Lewis.  Then "RFA tells you if it was not for them, things would be worse".  They do say that.  Their members say that.  Then I asked my question.  "What is worse than this".  To me, the closure of sea bass is the worst possible deal.  The worst.  Now the RFA will tell me, things could be worse than this?  What is that?  Please tell me what is worse than the sea bass closure.  Instead of airing your personal dislike for me on a public forum, just answer the question.  Sea Bass is closed and the stock is re-built to 103%.  What is worse than this?

Third:  How is the  Lautenburg letter writing campaign going?  Is he going to tell NOAA to reverse this?   How about Chuck Schumer.  Is he on board? 

Fourth:  Fishin Dude, you bet and the first round is on me!!!!

[Fishin Dude]

You and I need to get together for a beer!  <'((((><

[NJHEMIRT]

It is sad that they are killing business in this state with these absurd regulations.  All based on some guesses from a group that would probably love to see all fishing stopped!  How can they expect charters and party boats that have been here for generations to survive?  And the poor angler trying to occasionally pick up some fish for the table with a rod and reel has to catch huge fluke in a short season, or take home 1 blackfish...while the draggers can keep "bycatch" as the scoop up everything!  ugh!