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Author Topic: How To: Backing Braid with Mono  (Read 49376 times)
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Bucktail
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« on: August 26, 2007, 12:06:57 PM »

For many years I have used the "guesstimate" method of determining how much mono backing is needed to get the desired amount of braid to the top of the spool. 

Something like this:
I need to put 150 yards of 30# PowerPro on a reel that holds 300 yards of 10# test.  They want to back it with 20#, so it should hold 150 yards of that.  Therefore, I need to put on 1/2 that (75 yards of 20# mono) to bring the 30# braid to the top.

I had filled countless numbers of reels this way.  It's certainly unscientific, but for the most part worked fairly well (give or take 10 yards). Wink

Since then I have come across a very accurate system of figuring exactly how much mono backing is needed.  This was first published by Saltwater Sportsman last year.   If you "do the math" it really works!

Braid and Mono Capacity –

How to figure just the right amount of Mono backing for the quantity of the Braid you want to use – or visa-versa.

By Adam Wilner

Many bottom-bumping anglers like to use the thinner and far more sensitive super braids to find their dinner.  This type of line offers greater strength, much smaller diameters and the key – Unbelievable sensitivity.  The down side it is that it costs 3 times the price of mono.  Most angles I know don’t want to spend upwards of $50 to fill the reel with line.  The solution is simple.  Put 150 yards of braid on the top and spool the rest with good old-fashioned monofilament. 

The problem occurs when we try to get just the right amount of monofilament backing to add the amount of braid we have decided upon.  I have heard of many methods to accomplish this.  The best one I have heard requires a second, identical spool, where you put on the braid first and then add the mono until the spool is full.  At this point you would take the end of the mono that you just put on and tie it onto the second reel.  Now wind it on and you are done – perfect.  Except you need another spool or in the case of most bottom rigs another reel.  That is a costly way to add line.

With a little info and a calculator you can get the same result for free (or at least real cheap).  However, you must remember that your results will only be as accurate as the information you use.  If you are looking for perfection then I recommend that you take precautions.  For example, test your line counter.

The first information you will need is how much line the reel will hold.  It doesn’t matter if the manufacturer tells you a capacity in a different line size than you are going to use because we are going to convert all the numbers.

In the following illustration I am going to use The Penn 113H, 50 lb Power Pro and Ande 30lb mono for the backing. 

The 113H has a capacity of 475 yards of 30 lb line.  We need to know the diameter of the 30 lb. line Penn used in “their” calculations.  I could have called them or sent an e-mail but Penn also printed the other capacity numbers (metric) on the Penn website www.pennreels.com.  It is 435 Meters at .55 millimeters (mm).  Don’t be frightened, like many of you, I don’t think in meters or millimeters either.  The conversion tables are easy to use or you could simply go to www.onlineconversion.com and plug in your numbers.  In this case I have converted meters to yards and millimeters to inches.  These are the terms I am familiar with.  You will also need to know the diameter of the lines.  Power Pro has the specs posted on their website at www.powerpro.com.   It says there that their 50 lb. test line is .014 inches in diameter.  Finally, I will use Ande 30 lb. Monofilament as the backing www.andemonofilament.com.  I found that 30 lb Ande is .022 inches in diameter.

Let’s jot down some conversions.
 
435 meters = 476 yards (rounded)

.55 mm = .0216535 inch

50 pound Power Pro = .014 inch

Ande Premium Monofilament 30 lb. = .022 inch

1 mm = .0393701 inch

1 meter = 1.0936133 yard


Total Capacity Factor

The total capacity equals 476 yards with line of .0216535 of an inch.  To get the total capacity factor we do the following:           476 x .0216535 = 10.30

So 10.30 is the total capacity factor.

The Braids Capacity Factor

The capacity factor of the braided line is done the same way:  Remember, 150 yards of 50 lb. Power pro:

150 x .014 inch = 2.1  The braid capacity factor is 2.1

So the remaining capacity (or mono needed as backing) is:   The total capacity factor minus the braid capacity factor or:  10.3 – 2.1 = 8.2
  This is the Remaining Capacity FactorThis is the reason we went through all this.  The remaining capacity factor divided by the diameter of the mono tells us how much backing we need or:  8.2 ¸ .022 = 373 yards of the monofilament backing.

Simply load the reel with 373 yards of this mono, join the mono to the braid and wind it on.  If you are interested to know your new line capacity just add the two numbers 373 yards of mono + 150 yards of braid = 523 yards of line.

Want to add capacity to a spinning reel (or any reel)?  Trying to figure out how much braided line the spool will hold?  This method makes short work of it.  Of course we start with the manufacturers information.  Most often it is printed right on the spool itself.  Lets say we have a spinning reel that holds 195 yards of 20 lb test.  We want to keep 20-pound test but here we want to increase the amount of line on the reel. 

Remember:  Line capacity multiplied by the Line diameter = Total Capacity Factor or 195 x .018 = 3.51

Then the total capacity factor divided by the “new” line diameter (the braided line)  = The new capacity

Or 3.51 ¸ .009 = 390 yards of 20 pound test braided line.  In this case we have doubled the reels line capacity.  You may decide that you do not need that much line and opt for a little more strength.  Simply take the total capacity factor (you already figured this out) and divide it by the diameter of 30 pound braid or: 3.51 ¸ .011 = 319.  Perfect.  You now have 319 yards of 30-pound braid vs. 195 yards of 20 lb. Mono.  Look out Spindlebeak – I’m a commin’.

So with an inexpensive line counter and a calculator you can get you reel spooled to the brim without wasting any of that expensive braided line.
 
Fill your reel with line, fill your cooler with pop and fill your boat with fish.


-Bob Grin

« Last Edit: August 26, 2007, 12:38:52 PM by Bucktail » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2007, 12:26:24 PM »

Awesome.  I was wondering how to accomplish this.

Great info bucktail Bob thumbs up
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2007, 02:00:05 PM »

really nice article.. i usually use the 50/50 rule, depending what I am targeting.
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2007, 06:21:47 PM »

I match the diameter of both lines and go with about 5% backing.
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IrishAyes
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2007, 07:17:21 PM »

Good info Bucktail.   thumbs up
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2007, 12:44:57 AM »

Thanks Bucktail.

Paul
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2007, 11:56:54 PM »

Thanks that method will save some money.
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 12:54:24 PM »

Here's another way that was shared by some ole crusty cranky surfrats:
place your 150yd spool of braid face up in a pail of water.  thread the line through the guides from tip to reel. Tape the end to the spool of your reel and wind it in smoothly, and use your thumb or a rag as a slight drag, don't want it too tight, hence the water soaking.  Then tie your mono(spool face up) to the braid also from tip to reel. I use an albright knot. Reel the mono in to fill the reel. (I leave about and 8th of an inch.  Use an empty spool(you can use a nut and bolt), plastic water bottle or something similar and pull the line on it with a power drill or screwdriver. Then strip the line off of that on to another spool or water bottle.  Now the mono is on the outside ready to be loaded on your reel. Tie it on your reel.  I use an arbor knot. Fill your reel with a slight drag again.  Again make sure the braid is wet.  Now you have a perfect fill.  If you really think ahead, you can keep track of the amount of mono you used so that way you know for next time on the same reel.
HTH!
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2009, 10:13:05 AM »

if you dont have a problem spending the extra cash you can back your spools with electrical tape or teflon tape,instead of mono backing. it makes more of a diffrence with me using the surf rocket cause it gives me more line on the spool. the whole pourpose of mono backing or tape is because braid will just spinn on the spool, never staying tight. it really is a prefrence thing.most people dont have the need to have 300 yards plus of line on a spool,but both methods work well.
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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2009, 05:24:25 PM »

Just be careful of the electrical tape.  If it gets wet it will become a mess when you decide to change the mono.  I just back the braid with about 20 yards of mono and I have never had a problem with line spin.

Happy Catching

Paul
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2009, 11:23:24 PM »

the whole pourpose of mono backing or tape is because braid will just spinn on the spool

Ken, I agree that is a very important reason for the backing. 

Another equally important reason for the mono backing is to get the braid to come up close to the edge of the spool lip.  Since most inshore fishing doesn't require more than 150 yards of line and braid is generally 60%-70% smaller in diameter than mono, it's sometimes hard to fill the spool all the way.  And a severely under-filled spool will affect casting distance, drag settings and cranking speed.  That's the reason for the mono backing and the calculations. thumbs up
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2009, 05:16:13 AM »

 Cabelas has a chart showing Power Pro and Equivalent Diameter in mono.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20166-cat600395_TGP&id=0011779116487a&navCount=7&podId=0011779&parentId=cat600395&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=QZ&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat600395&hasJS=true
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2009, 08:24:04 AM »

I was just thinking the other day that someone could make a lot of money making a calculator to figure this all out.  Grin
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2009, 11:32:01 AM »

Good think my youngest son is good with Math to help me figure that stuff out  Grin
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2010, 08:38:25 AM »

The first time I looked at this thread, I said to myself oh geeze. Incoming complications. But I looked at it a little more, and it looks more involved then it really is.

Take my Diawa emcast plus (6000) reel for example.

I'll be using 50# power pro, and 40# mono backing

The Diawa reel has a line cap of 190 yards for 40lb mono.

40# mono diameter = .024 inches
50# pp diameter = .36 mm, or 0.014 inches.

So, I'll take the total line cap which is 190, and multiply that by the diameter of the mono.

190 x .024 = 4.56 (total capacity factor)

Since we know how much braid is on the spool, and the diameter of the braid, we multiply the amount of braid (150) by its diameter(.014)
 
150 x .014 = 2.1 (braid capacity factor)

Now we subtract the 2 factors.

4.56 - 2.1 = 2.46 (remaining capacity)

Take the 2.46 number, and divide it by the mono diameter

2.46 / .024 = 102.5 (yards of mono backing)

So, 102.5 yards of 40# mono backing + my 150 yard spool of 50# PP will spool my reel properly.

Bucktail, you are amazing!!!

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« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2010, 09:25:09 AM »

Size (# Test)  |  Diameter (Inches)  |  Mono Equivalent
__________________________________________________

8                             .005                           1
10                           .006                           2
15                           .007                           4
20                           .009                           6
30                           .011                           8
40                           .013                           10
50                           .014                           12
65                           .016                           16
80                           .017                           18
100                         .018                           20
150                         .022                           30
200                         .030                           50
250                         .035                           80


Chart for Power Pro
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 09:25:47 AM by Jeffish » Logged

IrishAyes
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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2010, 11:05:43 AM »

My mind doesn't compute all them figures anymore. But it does sound like you have it down pat Jeff.

The next best thing to all that ciphering is...give it to Bucktail and let him do it.  thumbsup2
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« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2010, 11:19:20 AM »

The next best thing to all that ciphering is...give it to Bucktail and let him do it.  thumbsup2
Grin
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« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2012, 08:35:26 AM »

I just wanted to add that if you have an avet reel to go to there website (avetreels.com) and read what they have on spooling your reel with braid.  They say NOT to back it with mono but rather use cloth or tape.

If you read a little more on the site they claim they are getting reels sent back due to improper or failing drags....but in fact when they ivestigate it further they find the drag is working properly...the line is at fault AND its due to the braid being backed with mono.

Just something figured I'd add for any other avet reel owners like myself who like to use braid.
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« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2012, 09:03:17 PM »

This all sound very good if you have the time or can not have a pro do it, I gave up spooling my reels many years ago, And having manufacturer spools with various amounts of Line left on them.
From My Fly Reels with Backing and types of Lines. to Spinning reels to Conventional. I leave it to the pros. To load the reels . Plus the cost is less and the end results are better. And The bulk spools  also can go to waste. A full service shop is the way to go. Not sure if naming them on this forum. is allowed. But you know who they are. Bill   
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