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Author Topic: I AIN'T NO TREE HUGGER BUT !  (Read 17759 times)
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FishOn
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« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2012, 05:48:05 PM »

Many Fish run in Cycles such as Blow fish, Weakfish to name a few. But many have been exploited


All recreational and commercially important species are cyclical. We overfish them thinking wow there is a great fishery here. Then we wonder why stocks decline and regulate the hell out of them to bring them back. It is stupid. Don't tell me weakfish aren't around anymore because they are in a natural down cycle. They are commercially overfished the same way flounder were/are. The more breeding class fish more eggs, the more eggs more fry, more fry means more eventual breeding class fish. It's really not that complicated but all the different stakes make it complicated
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BigAl13
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« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2012, 05:31:38 AM »

Weakfish whats that Havent seen one in RB in years. There all over barnegat.
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« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2012, 10:52:01 AM »

Weakfish whats that Havent seen one in RB in years. There all over barnegat.

I grew up fishing barneget. And stil do. That fishery is not a fraction of what it once was.  Sure you can float a sandworm or bounce a fin-s and catch some little guys now but not in the numbers or size they used to be. It's a shame. They fill a great inshore niche for the saltwater angler
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captainbailey
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« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2012, 07:08:03 PM »

I've haven't caught a weakie in 3 years targeting them exclusively in the summer nights on Barnegat Bay, only by mistake whether fluking or bassing later in the fall.
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« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2012, 07:51:53 PM »

 :headscra:Now In all do Respect. Lets start with Blow fish That's a easy one There was a time that they were so thick that they devastated the crabs in Barnagate Bay and great Bay. Crabbing for the next 6 years was mute. That was 54 years ago. Angry Then Manasquan Inlet was so packed with them The boats going had such vibration they soon found out The blow fish were so thick that just ground them up. some 48 more or less years ago. Angry. They have never came back in the numbers they once were. And no commercial fishing to blame  Angry Pollution is thought to blame .
Now Weak Fish some 50 years ago they were hard to find Great bay was one place they were found. We fished for them by the Stinky, we rented a 1 lounger at Rands U Drive, used Grass shrimp for chum And whole Med shrimp with thread wound around them on the hook with jumbo cork Bobber's Drifted far from the boat they hate Noise Angry And still do. Then We fished Romer shoal ( Blood or sand worms of the bottom for them 30 or so years ago and still today but you have to be there at 3am for them once motor noise or other boats start showing up they stopped biting. They are also of the keyport flats but most are breeders females, loaded with eggs I caught many from my Kayak up to 3 years ago when I sold the Kayak.  Angry Also Spanish Mackerel same area.  . The commercial fishery for them was and still is  Cape May where they fish   .
Stripers were far and few 40 and more and less years ago and Their was a Commercial  fishery for them, All along the coast from Main to Virginia, They kept them all. But It was the removal of the Bunker reduction boats , And the building of bunker schools That brought them Back with along with Laws & Regulations. As for the rest, its a fight to regulate and Clean up The waters.   There are Natural Cycles that govern them But Man, Pollution, over fishing plays its part.   Bill
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overbite
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« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2012, 07:54:28 PM »

  Hey Big Al there in your front yard No kidding, and I am talking Very large ones. Bill
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FishOn
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« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2012, 11:03:04 PM »

:headscra:Now In all do Respect. Lets start with Blow fish That's a easy one There was a time that they were so thick that they devastated the crabs in Barnagate Bay and great Bay. Crabbing for the next 6 years was mute. That was 54 years ago. Angry Then Manasquan Inlet was so packed with them The boats going had such vibration they soon found out The blow fish were so thick that just ground them up. some 48 more or less years ago. Angry. They have never came back in the numbers they once were. And no commercial fishing to blame  Angry Pollution is thought to blame .
Now Weak Fish some 50 years ago they were hard to find Great bay was one place they were found. We fished for them by the Stinky, we rented a 1 lounger at Rands U Drive, used Grass shrimp for chum And whole Med shrimp with thread wound around them on the hook with jumbo cork Bobber's Drifted far from the boat they hate Noise Angry And still do. Then We fished Romer shoal ( Blood or sand worms of the bottom for them 30 or so years ago and still today but you have to be there at 3am for them once motor noise or other boats start showing up they stopped biting. They are also of the keyport flats but most are breeders females, loaded with eggs I caught many from my Kayak up to 3 years ago when I sold the Kayak.  Angry Also Spanish Mackerel same area.  . The commercial fishery for them was and still is  Cape May where they fish   .
Stripers were far and few 40 and more and less years ago and Their was a Commercial  fishery for them, All along the coast from Main to Virginia, They kept them all. But It was the removal of the Bunker reduction boats , And the building of bunker schools That brought them Back with along with Laws & Regulations. As for the rest, its a fight to regulate and Clean up The waters.   There are Natural Cycles that govern them But Man, Pollution, over fishing plays its part.   Bill

I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make.    Weakfish were taken for granted. Winter flounder were taken for granted. Whiting were taken for granted. Bunker were taken for granted.  Hell, even blackfish fishing sucks compared to years ago. IMO this unbelievable bass fishery we have had the past couple of years is destined to crash. Florida has it right with their gamefish. Too bad most people up here have to justify the cost of fishing by taking home close to a hundred pounds of a mediocre tasting fish per angler per day. Unfortunaty these trophy sized fish are also the breeding sized fish. The law says its ok so who am I to complain anyway. But god forbid I see someone kill a bass and throw it away or leave it dead on the rocks for a bigger one 
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« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2012, 06:01:12 AM »

Plain and simple way to put it is, "Limit your kill, Don't kill your limit." Catching and keeping for table-fare is a way of life on the NJ cost as it has been since the Lenape's. The problem is not the hand full of  charter captains that do well and prove it with deck shots. Its IMO the dead waste from catch by product of the trawlers. Easy way to replenish all the fisherys is make commercial guys rod and reel only for a year or two. The biomass would thrive and it would take alot of the "Easy Money guys out of the game.
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« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2012, 07:50:56 AM »

 
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« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2012, 08:07:18 AM »

Fish ON My point is that not all fishery problems are catch related, As history has proved, But Regulations do help them recover.
Commercial Fishing has done damage big time just with poaching and loop holes, along with uncontrollable limits. and By catching, Maybe you are a lot younger and have little knowledge of what has happened over the years, and only know what you read today by so called conservationist and money grabbing groups of so called friends of the Fishermen. Its called divide and conquer.
Nature works on reproduction based on Food and habitat,and yes Over population.  Both on land and Sea. Its not rocket science.  Bill     
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FishOn
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« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2012, 10:00:40 AM »

Maybe you are a lot younger and have little knowledge of what has happened over the years, and only know what you read today by so called conservationist and money grabbing groups of so called friends of the Fishermen.  Its not rocket science. 

Maybe a lot younger as i do not know your age but please do not mistake my youth for me being naive. I hold degrees is environmental policy and coastal zone management (though I do not currently earn a living in these fields). I grew up in what once were the very healthy salt marshes of Barneget bay and have fished our waters for about 25 years. I was also fortunate enough to spend a lot of time in southeast florida when i was younger so i have witnessed how the bans of certain commercial gear as well as how the proactive regulations for recreational fisherman has minimized the the up and down cycles you refer to. I also know how to "research" and not cite a single sided interest group. 
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BigAl13
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« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2012, 10:08:29 AM »

Hey Big Al there in your front yard No kidding, and I am talking Very large ones. Bill


use to be literally 1000 feet from my front yard but they just havent showed up
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« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2012, 10:13:00 AM »

Plain and simple way to put it is, "Limit your kill, Don't kill your limit." Catching and keeping for table-fare is a way of life on the NJ cost as it has been since the Lenape's. The problem is not the hand full of  charter captains that do well and prove it with deck shots. Its IMO the dead waste from catch by product of the trawlers. Easy way to replenish all the fisherys is make commercial guys rod and reel only for a year or two. The biomass would thrive and it would take alot of the "Easy Money guys out of the game.

Bingo

But let me ask you this. When you go crabbing and you pull up a nice big female loaded with eggs (sponge crab). What do you do with her? Law says has to be released but non egg laden females are allowable. Now take striped bass where we know fish of a certain age and size are all females. Though we can not physically see the eggs in her belly, we know when she typically spawning ( but this can vary depending on temps).  So we release egg laden crabs, can not keep fluke, sea bass,  and blackfish during spawning periods, but stripers are being commcercial harvested and heavily fished recreationally during their entire spawning migration up and down the east coast.
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BigAl13
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« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2012, 10:55:11 AM »

me personally I dont keep any female crabs, sexing a male vs. female striper is far harder. The entire spawning process from early spring to late fall by time they make it up river to there thing and return to the ocean, so in order to stop egg laiden females from being harvested either the would have to wear dresses or call us when there done. I understand where your coming from its hard to stop that, also if you know about there spawning habits then you know why they head up river. But in case you dont its because they want to lay there eggs in fresh water because the salinity eats the shells. Now on most of the branches and tribituarys of the hudson river the closest fresh water to the NJ ocean is Poughkeepsie NY. Making it nearly impossible for the stripers to get to fresh water with all the dams and reservoirs, And yet they still manage to spawn in abundant numbers. So what Im saying is there a pretty resilient fish, and though I don't condone it I cant see how the rec captains are hurting the biomass with deck shots
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« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2012, 11:24:11 AM »

I think we all agreed that rec capts and thier customers shouldn't be faulted for obeying the law.

Speaking for myself, I'd like to see more protection for stripers with tighter regs.
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FishOn
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« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2012, 11:25:53 AM »

I'm not dogging anyone for keeping their limit or making a living. I just think that is an outdated style of photo that reduces a beautiful gamefish to an ugly pile of blood scales and slime. Doesnt capture the excitement of raising a big fish on top water or free lining a 2lb bait. Just some constructive criticism there. ( I don't actually really care what anyone does as it doesn't affect me)

Time will tell what happens to striper stocks. My feeling is why wait until they crash, if that is even a possibility (which it is), to protect them. I know the charter and party boat Capts feel the same for the most part cause if bass fishing sucks in may and June and then october through December, then what are these guys going to be able to target?  It's not just Nj that these fish face daily pressure. It's their entire south to north and back migration.  When faced with the possibilities (such as weakfish status), catch and release fishing with the big girls and taking home one or two 5-10 pound stripers per person doesn't sound all that bad.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 11:33:55 AM by FishOn » Logged

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FishOn
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« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2012, 11:39:55 AM »

so in order to stop egg laiden females from being harvested either the would have to wear dresses or call us when there done.

Or we implement a slot limit    Grin
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BigAl13
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« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2012, 11:41:51 AM »

Well what do you consider a big girls, because a 10lb striper isnt even a keeper
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BigAl13
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« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2012, 11:45:31 AM »

so in order to stop egg laiden females from being harvested either the would have to wear dresses or call us when there done.

Or we implement a slot limit    Grin


Ok so propose what you feel would be an ideal bag, size, and slot limit, even give me a season length so I may better understand where your going with this.
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« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2012, 12:01:59 PM »

Well what do you consider a big girls, because a 10lb striper isnt even a keeper

I had a 8lb on a boga measure 28.5" . Here is what I, a simple fisherman who fishes for enjoyment whether I catch or not and has spent some time on the water, would like to see.

For the entire striper coast not just nj:
1 fish at 20-30" per angler per day (there's your male fish)
1 fish greater than 48" per angler per day (there is your trophy)
Same season closure as it is now for backwaters (provides some pressure relief
Same 3 mile and out closure ( gives fish a safe zone)

This protects the 30-48" breeding class. Not the male fish or the dusty old females.

I would also like to all commercial fishing to be hook and line. I really hate gill nets. They got them out of Florida waters and it made a difference.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 12:13:16 PM by FishOn » Logged

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