NJ Saltwater Fisherman Forums
NJ Saltwater Fisherman => News and Information => Topic started by: njdiver on December 29, 2014, 07:41:11 PM
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“The State University of New Jersey at Rutgers (Rutgers), with funding from the U.S. National Science Foundation (NSF), proposes to conduct a high-energy, 3-D seismic survey on the R/V Marcus G. Langseth in the northwest Atlantic Ocean ~25–85 km from the coast of New Jersey in summer 2015.”
http://www.nsf.gov/geo/oce/envcomp/amended_mountain_nj_margin_ex_draft_18dec14-b.pdf
http://www.nsf.gov/geo/oce/envcomp/index.jsp
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Here we go again...
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Getting greedy for that oil!
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Getting greedy for that oil!
From where did you get the idea that this research, about climate change and sea-level change, was about oil & gas?
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I forget the location (I want to say FL or LA) but, it was done the same way. I am suspect of how this testing could be beneficial for climate change. http://ecowatch.com/2014/02/28/seismic-airgun-testing-offshore-drilling-threaten-marine-life/
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I forget the location (I want to say FL or LA) but, it was done the same way. I am suspect of how this testing could be beneficial for climate change. http://ecowatch.com/2014/02/28/seismic-airgun-testing-offshore-drilling-threaten-marine-life/
Fair enough, you see something in NJ done the same way as elsewhere, but you find the premise suspicious.
Maybe it's a good idea to read about the science, who the people are, before you spread rumors that it's about oil and gas...don't you think?
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I am certainly not a conspiracy theorist or what have you. I just find the premise odd as this testing has been approved for just about the entire east coast for the purpose of oil exploration. We've had previous discussions on this topic. The loss of marine life that could occur is pretty significant if you ask me - hundreds of dolphins, whales, and turtles. There's no telling what the impact would be on the pelagics that frequent the area.
Also, I didn't spread a rumor. My opinions of their intent is exactly that. You are more than welcome to agree or disagree.
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I am certainly not a conspiracy theorist or what have you. I just find the premise odd as this testing has been approved for just about the entire east coast for the purpose of oil exploration. We've had previous discussions on this topic. The loss of marine life that could occur is pretty significant if you ask me - hundreds of dolphins, whales, and turtles. There's no telling what the impact would be on the pelagics that frequent the area.
The takes on marine life, in comparison with that associated with the fishing industry, is minor. In relation to the ongoing dredging for beach nourishment, it isn't even on the radar. Noise in the ocean is a significant issue, but with shipping, mapping and various industries, this project isn't particularly significant-- unless you choose to make it so.
About oil & gas, Obama opened up the Atlantic south of New Jersey to oil-exploration seismic research. At the same time, oceanographers have been studying the ocean seeking no to learn little else than to understand how the earth works. Rosetta comet project Earth style. Take off your tin hat, and read the science, ok?
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Someone's gone fishing.......
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I forget the location (I want to say FL or LA) but, it was done the same way. I am suspect of how this testing could be beneficial for climate change. http://ecowatch.com/2014/02/28/seismic-airgun-testing-offshore-drilling-threaten-marine-life/
Fair enough, you see something in NJ done the same way as elsewhere, but you find the premise suspicious.
Maybe it's a good idea to read about the science, who the people are, before you spread rumors that it's about oil and gas...don't you think?
HUm...You may have us mistaken for another site..
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HUm...You may have us mistaken for another site..
TT^ pcrn
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DrakeRader, perhaps you can enlighten us tin hat wearers as to the benefit vs any harm to the environment/marine life. The only thing I could find with a google search was that the tests in question will provide valuable information to the oil industry. 5hrug
So, put on your 10 gallon hat and 'splain it to us, you have the floor. We will be your captive audience.
As an aside, you won't make many friends coming into a room and starting off by making disparaging comments to the regulars.
BTW, I think beach replenishment is a huge waste of time, effort and money.
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I am certainly not a conspiracy theorist or what have you. I just find the premise odd as this testing has been approved for just about the entire east coast for the purpose of oil exploration. We've had previous discussions on this topic. The loss of marine life that could occur is pretty significant if you ask me - hundreds of dolphins, whales, and turtles. There's no telling what the impact would be on the pelagics that frequent the area.
The takes on marine life, in comparison with that associated with the fishing industry, is minor. In relation to the ongoing dredging for beach nourishment, it isn't even on the radar. Noise in the ocean is a significant issue, but with shipping, mapping and various industries, this project isn't particularly significant-- unless you choose to make it so.
About oil & gas, Obama opened up the Atlantic south of New Jersey to oil-exploration seismic research. At the same time, oceanographers have been studying the ocean seeking no to learn little else than to understand how the earth works. Rosetta comet project Earth style. Take off your tin hat, and read the science, ok?
I would much rather have you read it to me since you seem to be so engrossed in its content. I am sure it's all legit. I mean it must be it's written right on the links provided. There could never be any other reason for it... Or could there?
Well, if I was a conspiracy theorist I would say you have a vested interest in this project and would do whatever it takes to protect it. You set some Google word alerts and joined our forum because it met your alert criteria. After all you did happen to join less than two hours after this topic was posted. In the several times this topic has come up I haven't met one fisherman who support the impact that it would have on the ocean mammals and fishes. Hmmm
Guys while we're off topic (go figure right?) please don't forget we never landed on the moon either. Here is the proof. I found it on the internet so, it has to be true; http://listverse.com/2012/12/28/10-reasons-the-moon-landings-could-be-a-hoax/
If you are against the Gov't and their chemtrails and geoengineering please join me at the convention in April! Tin hats are mandatory! http://globalmarchagainstchemtrailsandgeoengineering.com/
Enjoy your coffee (or is it??)
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(http://greenpeaceblogs.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/dolphinseismic.jpg)
(http://minnesotaconnected.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Seismic-Whale.jpg)
All About The Dollar
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whs
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If you would like to do the research:
http://www.iagc.org/media/files/page/Marine-Seismic-Operations-Overview.pdf
https://s3.amazonaws.com/delawareestuary/scienceandresearch/scienceprojects/Climate/library/Cooper_etal2008.pdf
http://geology.rutgers.edu/topical-issues/sea3d
http://www.nsf.gov/geo/oce/envcomp/index.jsp
http://www.nsf.gov/geo/oce/envcomp/amended_mountain_nj_margin_ex_draft_18dec14-b.pdf
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/pdfs/permits/nsfldeo_ea2014_draft.pdf
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/pdfs/permits/nsf_ldeo_newjersey_ea2014.pdf
http://www.nsf.gov/geo/oce/envcomp/nj-seismic-research/nj-final-ea-1-july-2014-with-appendices.pdf
http://www.cleanoceanaction.org/fileadmin/editor_group2/General/Public_Relations/Photos/Seismic/OutreachCruiseSummary.pdf
https://www.princeton.edu/step/people/faculty/michael-oppenheimer/recent-publications/Future-Sea-Level-Rise-and-the-New-Jersey-Coast-Assessing-Potential-Impacts-and-Opportunities.pdf
http://publications.iodp.org/preliminary_report/313/313PR.PDF
http://cleanoceanaction.blogspot.com/2014/07/seismic-triple-threat-to-atlantic-ocean.html
http://www.nj.gov/dep/docs/seismic-testing-federal-complaint.pdf
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/newsrel/2014/14_0071.htm
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014/03/renewed_search_for_offshore_oil_along_atlantic_coast_raises_concerns_in_nj.html
http://www.subacoustech.com/wp-content/uploads/NPLDiverNoisePresentation.pdf
http://www.dmac-diving.org/guidance/DMAC12.pdf
http://www.scribd.com/doc/46871169/DMAC-Diving-Distance-From-Seismic-Survey-Ops-1979
http://archive.rubicon-foundation.org/xmlui/bitstream/handle/123456789/4995/ADA407482.pdf?sequence=1
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2012/11/10/2291933_seismic-tests-off-diablo-canyon.html?rh=1
http://thecre.com/pdf/THE_FEDERAL_GOVERNMENTS_LONGSTANDING_REGULATION_OF_SEISMIC_AIRGUNS.pdf
http://www.memac-rsa.org/pdf/Guidelines/3%2520GUIDELINES%2520TO%2520THE%2520CONDUCT%2520OF%2520SEISMIC%2520OPERATIONS.pdf
http://www.ecu.edu/cs-acad/crm/upload/2014-SeismicBib-2.pdf
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There are many reasons for doing seismic surveys. They are used to check
foundations for roads, buildings or large structures such as bridges. They can help to
Marine Seismic Overview 3
© IAGC March 2002.
detect ground water. They can be used to assess where coal and minerals are.
One of the most common uses is in the search for hydrocarbon resources, gas and
oil, and most commercial seismic surveying is carried out in this energy sector.
Oil and gas exploration takes place all over the Earth's surface. It can be generally
considered as falling into the two main categories:
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Onshore or Land Exploration
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Offshore or Marine Exploration.
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Good news on the proposed Seismic Survey off Barnegat Inlet later this summer. “NSF has decided to extend the public comment period by an additional 15 days above and beyond the 37 days it was planned to be open for comment. The public comment period will now close on February 9, 2015, 11:59pm Eastern Standard Time.” Last year’s attempt was stymied by equipment failure. Please let them know what you think of this situation by sending an email comment to:
nsfcommentnj@nsf.gov
We are searching for studies done on the effects of their equipment on recreational divers and will post and inform our community when the final Environmental Assessment has been published. The proposed Environmental Assessment can be found here:
http://www.nsf.gov/geo/oce/envcomp/amended_mountain_nj_margin_ex_draft_18dec14-b.pdf
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Thanks for the update t^
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You guys really should read the science.
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Dear IrishAyes,
First, I'm not familiar with the technical format of this discussion group. I hope this works.
To your question. I think there are legitimate concerns about human produced (anthropogenic) sound in the ocean and the sound from a scientific ship is part of that-- as are shipping, pile driving and dredging. The effect of all this on marine life is a subject about which I read often.
When posting here initially, I am not speaking to that subject, but the worry expressed by many that the specific Rutgers project under discussion has research that will serve oil & gas exploitation. "Tin Hat," to be sure is strong coffee, considering anyone's concern about the oceans being affected by future oil drilling is a worry that I also share.
So in the same way that I've read a lot about sound in the ocean, I have also read about the science and scientists associated with the Rutgers seismic project, and I understand that this has nothing to do with oil and gas. I understand that the research on sea level rise is of minimal use to anyone in that industry...but more to the point, I understand that the scientists involved are completely dedicated to understanding the secrets of climate change; the underpinnings of that are shifting constantly, and the kind of research associated with the Rutgers seismic project is to help understand what is going on with our planet.
In this way, I ask that people with legitimate worries about oil and gas to read about the science involved, and to try to understand what is really going on.
And again, issues of acoustics should be treated as a separate discussion.
I hope I've addressed your query fully?
DrakeRader, perhaps you can enlighten us tin hat wearers as to the benefit vs any harm to the environment/marine life. The only thing I could find with a google search was that the tests in question will provide valuable information to the oil industry. 5hrug
So, put on your 10 gallon hat and 'splain it to us, you have the floor. We will be your captive audience.
As an aside, you won't make many friends coming into a room and starting off by making disparaging comments to the regulars.
BTW, I think beach replenishment is a huge waste of time, effort and money.
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I am not directly involved in the upcoming survey off New Jersey, but planned drilling and 5 previous seismic surveys of this region (1990, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2009). In 2009, I participated in drilling of 3 coreholes offshore NJ by the Integrated Ocean Drilling Program Expedition 313. In each of these surveys and drilling, we observed no impact on the marine environment. Expedition 313 is academic effort trying to reconstruct sea-level changes, focusing in on the Oligocene to middle Miocene (ca. 34-10 Million years ago). We dated the sediments and determined changes in sea level that we linked to changes in Antarctic ice sheets. The only relevance to oil and gas is that we are trying to understand how sea level change affects the record of sediments; this is quite academic stuff. There is no oil or gas in the inner to middle continental shelf of New Jersey. 29 dry holes were drilled on the outer shelf and slope in the 1979-1982; there is very little oil interest in this region. The upcoming survey will allow the scientists to image the response of ancient land and seascapes to these changes in sea level I have reconstructed, and thus will be quite relevant to understanding past, present, and future sea level changes. Please visit my website to see my credentials on the topic of sea-level rise. Our recent paper (Miller, K.G., Kopp, R.E., Browning, J.V., Horton, B., and A. Kemp, 2013, Geological constraints on sea level rise and impacts on the mid-Atlantic coast: Earth’s Future, v. 1, 1-14) is posted and you can see how we use information from the past to understand the future response to sea level change. Our best estimate is that global sea-level and subsidence (sinking) will result in a rise of ~3 ft by 2100….
Ken Miller, Distinguished Professor of Earth and Planetary Sciences
http://geology.rutgers.edu/people/faculty/19-people/faculty/242-kenneth-g-miller
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Drakerader and kgm, thank you for taking the time to post your answers. This is a subject that many (including and especially me) do not have intimate knowledge about.
The more civil discussions we have on this the more understanding people will have on the subject and therefore have the ability to form a somewhat educated opinion.
All information from both sides of the aisle are welcome and appreciated.
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whs t^
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To all of the fishermen,
First thanks for the welcome. I came on your site to state facts, not opinions or spin.
As an oceanographer, we share the seas and the last thing we want to do is negatively impact on the marine environment. There is political spin associated with the issue of the Rutgers-Lamont Langseth cruise. Yes, we do not want industry scale seismic surveys and drilling off NJ. That will not happen since only regions south of NJ have been opened up. But this academic effort has been conflagrated with the industry efforts to the south. Clean Ocean Action has picked on this particular cruise while posing no real opposition to two other cruises last year that used much larger sound sources because it is closer so shore (but still 30 miles out). I am not a advocate and am quite "green". But I oppose Clean Ocean Actions misrepresentation of facts.
I am happy to talk in person, on the phone, or in e-mail with any of your members. If I had a fishing vessel, I would have concerns. I think I can help allay those concerns.
Ken Miller
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I am not directly involved in the upcoming survey off New Jersey, but planned drilling and 5 previous seismic surveys of this region (1990, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2009). In 2009, I participated in drilling of 3 coreholes offshore NJ by the Integrated Ocean Drilling Program Expedition 313. In each of these surveys and drilling, we observed no impact on the marine environment. Expedition 313 is academic effort trying to reconstruct sea-level changes, focusing in on the Oligocene to middle Miocene (ca. 34-10 Million years ago). We dated the sediments and determined changes in sea level that we linked to changes in Antarctic ice sheets. The only relevance to oil and gas is that we are trying to understand how sea level change affects the record of sediments; this is quite academic stuff. There is no oil or gas in the inner to middle continental shelf of New Jersey. 29 dry holes were drilled on the outer shelf and slope in the 1979-1982; there is very little oil interest in this region. The upcoming survey will allow the scientists to image the response of ancient land and seascapes to these changes in sea level I have reconstructed, and thus will be quite relevant to understanding past, present, and future sea level changes. Please visit my website to see my credentials on the topic of sea-level rise. Our recent paper (Miller, K.G., Kopp, R.E., Browning, J.V., Horton, B., and A. Kemp, 2013, Geological constraints on sea level rise and impacts on the mid-Atlantic coast: Earth’s Future, v. 1, 1-14) is posted and you can see how we use information from the past to understand the future response to sea level change. Our best estimate is that global sea-level and subsidence (sinking) will result in a rise of ~3 ft by 2100….
Ken Miller, Distinguished Professor of Earth and Planetary Sciences
http://geology.rutgers.edu/people/faculty/19-people/faculty/242-kenneth-g-miller
Professor, Miller,
At what distance from the operating survey vessel is it safe to be underwater for a recreational SCUBA diver?
There is a shipwreck in about the middle of the survey area and several “nearby”. New Jersey’s recreational diving community needs to know, to be safe.
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My understanding is that divers are advised to stay 5 km away from the sound source.
The following from the marine office at Lamont
"...we identified two known dive sites on wrecks in or near survey area. Regarding proximity to seismic survey for divers for the sound source being used is that we would advise that divers should stay beyond 5.2 km from the vessel."
That said, at 5 km the sound of the air gun would be as loud as lawn mower.
Ken Miller
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Wow.. that's 3 miles a way.. Sounds to me like this could really shut down our Inshore Bluefin Tuna and harm the marine life.. It has too.. can't be good