The cost of not having a NJ saltwater license

[Bucktail]

Interesting...

[CaptTB]

As far as his poll. If he posted the poll he took it would show some very poor options. Of the poor options his 'yeah, i want a license' was the best answer. As I said, the options were horrible. The "what if's" are off the wall for anything that would be a quality, meaningful poll.

That is basically what it was...if you were backed into a corner, would you want a saltwater license with funds going to NJ or the Feds?  There isn't an option for...I AM AGAINST A SALTWATER FISHING LICENSE .

 

There was also, at the time of his poll, a bill IN THE SENATE COMMITTEE to have a FREE Salt Water Registry. It would have met ALL the Federal requirements, meaning NOT ONE RED CENT would have to be paid to the feds for ANYTHING.

Funny, that option wasn't on his poll.

[Capt. Birch]

Nice to see this guy finally found this great site. I would imagine when CaptTB gets bored or a little free time he will post all the info about NJ only needing to create a free regrisry(really about 2bucks) to comply with MSA. IMHO Most fisherman would be okay with paying a larger fee if the money would benefit only the saltwater sector. My understanding is money from sales for a saltwater licence would be dedicated to the saltwater resource and NOT the general fund.So this is really no concern. My concern is that due to budget deficits that any revenue generated from licence sales will result in funding cuts in that same amount....for a net gain of 0 dollars and 0 improved benefits to saltwater anglers.Pay more for the same benifits does not sound like a good deal.   

[IrishAyes]

You can also consider this...Once upon a time the Great State of New Jersey paid into the pension plan. The the Honorable Governor Christine Whitmann decided that there was plenty of money in the dedicated fund and felt the the State of New Jersey would be an appreciative recipient of some of the pension money. She raided our fund for millions of dollars and then told the municipalities that they did not have to direct money into the fund for a long, long time.

We all know the problems of the pensions system now.

That tells me that any money collected in license fees may be dedicated to saltwater used in the beginning but what will happen down the road?

[Kensdock]

Quote
Millions of lost recreational fishing hours.

How, does a license change this?

By investing in our fish stocks via hatcheries, funding fish @ game to enable them to manage our saltwater resources reasonably.

We have State Conservation Officers assigned to a Marine Bureau, as well as State Police.  Where have their salaries been coming from to date?  A license would not and should not change law enforcement efforts !

Yes, we have nine"conservation officers assigned to the marine division. We have 9,000,000 residents, 1.2 million recreational fishermen and the forth largest commercial port in the nation. What we have in NJ at this point is a free for all for poachers. A NJ saltwater license most certainly would change this.

Quote
The continued bankruptcy of bait shops,charter fishing operations,party boats and other related businesses.

You honestly think having to buy a license will change this?
Yes absolutely! Take a look at what can be accomplished through investing in our marine resources.
 
Please check my references you will find the answers to the rest of your questions.

 We need change. We have a minority with interest that differ from those of true sportfishermen. They have had the only voice at the table long enough !This minority would not support a moratorium on weakfish, even though the majority of saltwater anglers were pleading for one. The scientist at the ASMFC stated that a moratorium was the only responsibly option, yet the *** chose the interest of a few and would not support a moratorium. We have a group pushing a free registration bill { Tax payer funded} that even the sponsor knows it will never become law. Governor Christie has stated he will not sign any unfunded legislation.

 Do yourself a favor join the push for change! Join in helping improve saltwater fishing in NJ, Help push the NJ license Bill !!




 

[Jeffish]

Interesting, and a bit odd. 

[brian8980]

Very ODD 

[Pfishingruven]

Quote
Millions of lost recreational fishing hours.

How, does a license change this?

By investing in our fish stocks via hatcheries, funding fish @ game to enable them to manage our saltwater resources reasonably.

We have State Conservation Officers assigned to a Marine Bureau, as well as State Police.  Where have their salaries been coming from to date?  A license would not and should not change law enforcement efforts !

Yes, we have nine"conservation officers assigned to the marine division. We have 9,000,000 residents, 1.2 million recreational fishermen and the forth largest commercial port in the nation. What we have in NJ at this point is a free for all for poachers. A NJ saltwater license most certainly would change this.

Quote
The continued bankruptcy of bait shops,charter fishing operations,party boats and other related businesses.

You honestly think having to buy a license will change this?
Yes absolutely! Take a look at what can be accomplished through investing in our marine resources.
 
Please check my references you will find the answers to the rest of your questions.

 We need change. We have a minority with interest that differ from those of true sportfishermen. They have had the only voice at the table long enough !This minority would not support a moratorium on weakfish, even though the majority of saltwater anglers were pleading for one. The scientist at the ASMFC stated that a moratorium was the only responsibly option, yet the *** chose the interest of a few and would not support a moratorium. We have a group pushing a free registration bill { Tax payer funded} that even the sponsor knows it will never become law. Governor Christie has stated he will not sign any unfunded legislation.

 Do yourself a favor join the push for change! Join in helping improve saltwater fishing in NJ, Help push the NJ license Bill !!




 

Hey Kensdock, I am not necessarily against you.  However, when you present an opinion and back it with propaganda and open ended opinions with no facts, I can't help but question the validity of what you are writing.  It is like a politician promising you the world so you will vote for them.  You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but to title a post "The Cost of Not Having a NJ Saltwater License," makes this a little bit more than an opinion.  

Not to mention, when I go to the website where you have a "Poll" and then tell me that the "poll" was overwhelmingly in support of a license, but the questions are:

NJ salt water license with a law dedicating the funds to enhance nj fishing 92%  (61 votes)

Set up the mandated registry with the funds going to the us general fund 8%  (5 votes)

Number one, only 66 people voted...that is far from adequate numbers to suggest that the majority of NJ Recreational Fishermen/women want a saltwater license.  Secondly, you only asked if the people wanted the money to go to NJ or the Feds.  How about asking Yes or No for a license?
 
If you could show me, in writing, that the State of NJ has already planned and passed law to use the license fees directly towards all of these points you make, then I might actually buy it for now.  Like was said previously, who says it will stay that way?  Where does it say that the money will fund more law enforcement officers in the Marine Division?

Like I said, I am not against you or trying to be a jerk.  You have presented a valid platform, however, you haven't won me or many others over with your persuasion.  If you want to make your platform work, you need to present cold, hard facts and just the facts, to get the support.  Otherwise, people just simply view it as propaganda.  You need to be able to fire back like Capt Tony Bogan does:  his facts and knowledge will silence ANYONE!!

Good luck and please prove me wrong!

 

[Kensdock]

The significance of the poll on  Kensdock can only be realized when taken in addition to other factors. Like the poll taken on a popular site with  24,000 members after a long debate I had with Hutchjr on the license issue.. The saltwater license issue won approval on that site 68%.



  I will be back later

[Bucktail]

Unfortunately, the kind of poll you've posted  means nothing and is statistically irrelevant.  Anytime you invite people to respond to a poll it automatically skews the results.

Sorry, but you need to do better than that.

[brian8980]

I have to agree with Bucktail, for a poll to hold any weight, the people have to want to take it and not be asked/invited to.

[njdiver]

Do yourself a favor join the push for change! Join in helping improve saltwater fishing in NJ, Help push the NJ license Bill !!

Show me the bill!

[Pfishingruven]

I think Kensdock figures it is something that is inevitable!  Which is a fact.  Either we pay NOAA a Registry Fee in 2011 or we pay a NJ State Saltwater License and keep the money here in the State.  The Bill for a Free Registry in NJ failed miserably in State Legislature. 

The big problem, lies in the fact, that the NJ Fisheries Council, needs to get moving on this if NJ is going to do this for 2011.  The other problem is, we already see almost no money from fees already paid.  So, to get the monies appropriated where they should be, is the biggest fight.  I think this is where Kensdock and supporters are headed...to get on board early and push the State for the Saltwater License and fees to go back into saltwater fisheries.  However, to this point, what the monies could help are only "what if's" or maybe's"...nothing has even been drafted, yet set in stone.

At some point, we all are going to have to consider this...IMO the days of free saltwater fishing are over and we lost that fight with NOAA.  So plan B may really have to be an option soon.

I am interested to hear from guys like Capt TB, dropoff, hutchjr, njdiver, etc...and see what their opinion on this is?  Is this a fight we should continue to keep saltwater fishing free or do we need to concede and get on the next best train?

 

[IrishAyes]

There is a major difference between picking between the lesser of two evils and outright supporting a cause.

His title "the cost of not having a nj saltwater license" shows that Kensdock outright favors a license. That is his opinion and he is entitled to it.

However, all of the items in his arguement for having a license are bogus. I saw nothing to support his assumptions as to what would happen without having a license.

A seperate post (joke) I put up about never assuming holds true here. Don't assume any thing it makes an ASS out of U and ME.

[Pfishingruven]

 

I agree and this was what I was questioning.

 

[Kensdock]

Please let me back up for a second,  Great site here! It is nice to find a group of fishermen that care about the issues facing NJ fisherman. For those of you who do not know me, my name is Ken,  I am pushing  for a few changes that I am sure will make New Jersey a much better place to saltwater fish. A NJ saltwater license is one of them. I hope that everyone will take the time to check the list of the cost of not having a NJ saltwater license. Check  the NOAA site for the estimated NJ anglers then  multiply the  number by 20 or 40 dollars. The 150,000,000 dollars NJ lost due to not having a saltwater license fund,check for yourself to see if the money was available. Check the achievements of the saltwater angler group CCA that support a saltwater license. I am sure after reading what they have done for saltwater fishermen and saltwater fish stocks their opinion will at lest get your attention. http://www.joincca.org/Accomplishments.html
 

[IrishAyes]

Again Ken, I will ask. Did the saltwater license that Maryland, Virginia and others have keep the sea bass fishing open to them. The answer, as you know, is NO, IT DID NOT, THE SEA BASS FISHING IS C-L-O-S-E-D FOR THEM ALSO.

The money the state will get from the saltwater fishermen license will first be used to pay for the LEOs that are now being paid by the state. The state will then have the money they used to pay for them at their disposal. More money will be used for office staff with none of that money going toward the fishermen. The politicians are very creative in their use of OUR money. They will find legal (not moral) ways to confiscate any money that should go to our benefit.

You want a license, just send the state a check for $25 every year that you want to fish. I don't want to do that. The state already has way too much of my money now.

[Pfishingruven]

Hi Ken !  It is a GREAT bunch of people here who are very passionate and talented.  People who fish for sport and recreation and also those trying to make a living.

Can you answer this question for me.  It will give me a better understanding where you are coming from.  Are you supporting a saltwater license because you believe in the good it will do, or are you supporting a license because we have been backed into a corner and have little to no options left?

Thanks.

 

[njdiver]

I think Kensdock figures it is something that is inevitable!  Which is a fact.  Either we pay NOAA a Registry Fee in 2011 or we pay a NJ State Saltwater License and keep the money here in the State.  The Bill for a Free Registry in NJ failed miserably in State Legislature.

A3252, S2080 Failed because the sponsor of S2080 refused to allow an amendment to add a cost covering fee to the bill and the Committee Chairman refused to release a non-funded mandate which he knew would not pass.  They have both been reintroduced in the latest legislative session as A823 and S1122.

The big problem, lies in the fact, that the NJ Fisheries Council, needs to get moving on this if NJ is going to do this for 2011.  The other problem is, we already see almost no money from fees already paid.  So, to get the monies appropriated where they should be, is the biggest fight.  I think this is where Kensdock and supporters are headed...to get on board early and push the State for the Saltwater License and fees to go back into saltwater fisheries.  However, to this point, what the monies could help are only "what if's" or maybe's"...nothing has even been drafted, yet set in stone.

The NJ Marine Fisheries Council is presently made up of five commercial fishermen, four recreational fishermen and one “public at large” member with one “public at large” member seat unfilled (for the last three years).  The present “public at large” member is a member of academia from Rutgers who has worked with both groups professionally.  The only sure way to protect any fees from being redirected is thru a State constitutional amendment specifying where, how and on what the funds would be spent.

At some point, we all are going to have to consider this...IMO the days of free saltwater fishing are over and we lost that fight with NOAA.  So plan B may really have to be an option soon.

Fishing tidal waters without paying a fee to government will soon be history.  We are the only state left without some form of legislation mandating it. 

I am interested to hear from guys like Capt TB, dropoff, hutchjr, njdiver, etc...and see what their opinion on this is?  Is this a fight we should continue to keep saltwater fishing free or do we need to concede and get on the next best train?

 

I am reserving my opinion for when someone in Trenton reveals legislation that makes sense.  However long that might take.  I will continue to relate facts on this issue as I uncover them. 

[Pfishingruven]

THANK YOU njdiver !