Will Blackfish Be next on the A.S.M.F.C. Radar?

[Capt. Birch]

Ok on the turnpike heading south with the iPhone so bear with the spelling lol.
I think  the major difference between managers and Rec fisherman is that most fisheries are managed by Tac and Tal. We as Rec fisherman think in terms of season ,size, and bag limits. Very big difference when it comes to recs and comm. I my be wrong and please anyone correct me but I believe blue crab and lobster are the only spieces in Nj that is managed on the biological based size limit. I believe all finish are managed on size limits that are in place to reduce landings and not based on biology( such 2 spawning seasons before havest). When we get a quota all you have to do is divide the number of trips by number of anglers by number of avr fish caught per trip by avg weight of fish to get an idea if it will be a conservative or liberal season. Now it works pretty well when stocks are very low and landings are down. Low stocks mean very long seasons with large bag limits and small minimum lengths . Really the poundage is low and not much of chance to over fish a quota. The problem to us as Rec fisherman  occurs on a rebuilding stock and throw in a firm rebuilt deadline makes it even more painful.

[IrishAyes]

You are making a very valid point Capt Birch. When I first started fishing many years ago I sort of remember the regs were made so the fish had an oportunity to reproduce at least once and that is why they picked the size limit they did. To me that made sense. Seems like they are getting away from that way of thinking for whatever reason.

 

[Capt. Carl]

Capt.Birch,
first of all,be careful on the road...we dont want an accident over this discussion im sure.
in regards to the fish pots, i know the quotas the commercial guys have. my whole point was that fish pots are not discriminatory to certain types of fish...they will take them all as long as they fit. it wasnt until only 2 years ago that the commercial fisherman COULD NOT trap from april thru june and their Quotas were lowered...before that, they could trap during the whole spawing season i believe(taking fish after fish with millions of eggs).
i think we all know the importance of the closed spawning season on such a slow growing fish and i believe that if they shut recreational fishing down during that time, then the commercial guys should not be able to fish in june for them...PERIOD. Give them another month in the year to catch their fish...Hey,we are all trying to make a living.

[Capt. Birch]

Cont........ Now with a rebuilding stock more fish get landed Which equals more pounds. So now the managers need to increase the size to reduce landings. And for the guys that will argue that a big fish weighs more the math in most cases will defeat your argument. For every lager keeper the fishery would land 5 plus fish of the smaller size in a rebuilding fishery. So know we as Rec fisherman appear to be penalize with higher size limits and a shorter open season all the while we are really getting larger quotas (7 million pounds is better than 32 million). Which in a very very long way leads back to Capt joes seabass post. We fished on a little over 1 million pounds last season and "they" claim we crushed the fish and went way over. Now under law they must deduct the over from last year from this years quota. Without a very large quota increase the math will point to a short season with low bag limit and or a very large minimum size increase. That's how we got to the possability of a 5 fish seabAss limit. Now comes the big questions1 are the landings accurate ? 2 was there a massive increase in angler participation in the fishery3 was there a large increase in the biomass4are we doing harm to the fishery.  There are a few more but I think get point across. Do the managers just say F it and add 5 millions pounds to the quota( that's what they domin the Med with bluefin tuna) or do they try to prove or disprove on the questions to get the correct answer. The seabass fishery is fullyrebuilt and over fishing is not occurring that even the Feds agree  which will allow for much more leeway as compared to an overfished stock. Right know secretary of commerce Gary Locke could call a do over and give us enough pounds for a real season

[Hotrod]

  Please tell me your not driving 

[Capt. Birch]

Please tell me your not driving  

Let's just say I am not driving well. Lol
Naaaa I am the co pilot for the ride down with an ETA of 7:26 at Virgina Beach

[Capt. Birch]

You are making a very valid point Capt Birch. When I first started fishing many years ago I sort of remember the regs were made so the fish had an oportunity to reproduce at least once and that is why they picked the size limit they did. To me that made sense. Seems like they are getting away from that way of thinking for whatever reason.

 

The math makes them manage differnt now. The choices for reducing landings are limited. They can shorten season ,increase size, or lower bag limits. The other option is to reduce angler pressure by reducing participation. Now with fish managed with a tal and Tac all increases and decreases will affect both com and recs. If we get more they also will get an increase. This year rec seabass appears to be a little different as the Rec landings appear to be very flawed to the point of being discredited. I have plenty of questions just like you Joe. I think the main one would be what size fluke has the highest fundecy rate. Are we killing the best breeders with the high size limits? But the high size limit and short season is about the only way to landings with in our quota. We could op for a 14 inch size limit bit the season would only be 72 hours long. I will buy the guy that comes up with the plan to fully exploit the fishery with a long season large bag limits and non halibut size limits a cup of coffee.

[Capt. Birch]

Capt.Birch,
first of all,be careful on the road...we dont want an accident over this discussion im sure.
in regards to the fish pots, i know the quotas the commercial guys have. my whole point was that fish pots are not discriminatory to certain types of fish...they will take them all as long as they fit. it wasnt until only 2 years ago that the commercial fisherman COULD NOT trap from april thru june and their Quotas were lowered...before that, they could trap during the whole spawing season i believe(taking fish after fish with millions of eggs).
i think we all know the importance of the closed spawning season on such a slow growing fish and i believe that if they shut recreational fishing down during that time, then the commercial guys should not be able to fish in june for them...PERIOD. Give them another month in the year to catch their fish...Hey,we are all trying to make a living.

I think you make some very good points in your post. There are a few things I dont do not agree with though. From my own personal observation and talk with other Capt's the by catch is not an issue. It can be but for the most part it is a very "clean fishery". It is a mis conception that pots just load up with fish all the time. Potting is good and poor just like fishing. When hauling just throw back what you are not landing as the fish are coming from shallow water (under 120feet as is the case for tog) and  alive. Dead discards do become a problem at times. Potters must stake out an area and keep gear there or some one else will set it. They may keep the doors open and no bait but will still have pots on site cont

[Capt. Birch]

Cont  but will not be landing or hauling gear until the season opens. This is when by catch and dead discard come into play.There seasons are much different than ours. They can be told that they can not land fish and their season is closed with 24hours notice as quotas are getting filled.Now a potter may have bad weather or broken boat and cant haul. He may chose to keep the fish in his pots until another opening of quota is announced. Dead discards become an issue when the weather hits. Northeasters or very big swell that cause bottom surge. The fish get beat to crap and die but this the exception and not the rule. As far as the points about taking spawning fish that is a slippery one and not as obvious as it may seem. Really what is the impact on a spawning biomass when that mature female is harvested? What if it was taken in Oct on the Axel, Dec on the Sandy Hook, Jan on 17 or May on Shrewsbury. The math will not change as to total available mature females for spawning. The issue when is comes to spawning is mainly aggregation. All big spawning females in one spot will allow of a very disaportionate harvest of mature females that in turn will then do harm to the total spawning biomass and make current harvest levels unsustainable.So yes we both agree that havest in that area at that time of year is not a good thing.