Will Blackfish Be next on the A.S.M.F.C. Radar?

[Capt. Carl]

Decembers issue of Salt Water Sportsman had a very disturbing letter to the editor in response to the October Article "Togzilla" from an employee of Atlantic States Marine Fisheries.  The Statements made were not of opinion but obviously of Facts from their data base(and we all know their facts are ALWAYS CORRECT...RIGHT?). The way this article sounds...they have an agenda...and the recreational sector is to blame as always.... ...but lets keep the Draggers on the Reefs...thats just fine i guess.

i just dont think anything good can come from this down the road...just like the whole Sea Bass issue. Here's the article:

 " While the article "Hunting Togzilla" in the October 2010 issue of Saltwater Sportsman did a great job of describing the best ways to catch big Tautog, it seriously misrepresented current stock status. The article incorrectly stated that the Tautog population is thriving. The truth is tautog have been at near record-low levels for the last decade, with current biomass at 30 percent of the historical high. Given the species' low fecundity and slow growth rate, the stock is unlikely to rebuild in the next decade unless fishing morality is significantly reduced. Recreational landings, accounting for nearly 90 percent of total harvest, have continued to increase. In fact, exploitation has increased so significantly the Atlantic states recently initiated a new addendum in advance of the 2011 benchmark assessment to curtail any expansion of the fishery. Given the great benefits that the fishermen would enjoy from a fully rebuilt stock, it is disappointing that the anglers were not told that tautog are overfished. Rather than release large fish, the more effective approach would be to reduce overall fishing mortality. We would hope you and your readers would support state regulations doing that.

Tina Berger
Public Affairs Specialist
Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission

[Hotrod]

 

[IrishAyes]

Well, there goes my blood pressure up again. 

[Kenny]

     WTF

[Capt. Birch]

 I have been following the tog stock assessments(if thats what you really want to call it) for some time. Years ago I remember first hearing the rumor that there was going to be a size limit. Never thought it could come down to broken seasons and very small bag limits. But it has and is. The truth is 10 years ago many of us judged a good trip by how many pounds we landed. 60 pounds per angler on a charter was a poor trip now many consider 6 14" fish a banner day. I really do not know if there is more or less fish now but I am will to accept facts that can be supported by science and research. What I cant do is just discount ones position because of the initial behind their name. Most days during the summer I can make a short drop and catch about a many blacks as a charter could want. Does that mean that the population is healthy or does it mean I have the anglers over some very good bottom with the proper rigs and the right bait. As anglers we do not need to get angry, we need to get informed. If the studies do not exist to support our positions we as anglers need to fund them. If proven wrong we need to except the results and protect the resource. I do not want to kill the last buffalo , but I will with a smile on my face if the bag limit and season lets me.       

[Bucktail]

Very well said captain.

[IrishAyes]

I disagree with the angler having to fund the studies. That is what we are paying the government to do with all of the taxes that we now pay for the fishing tackle and the fuel we burn in our boats.

It is the government and their ineptness that is causing the grief. We pay their salaries and they can not perform the job that they are being paid to do. Throwing more money in their face will not give them any better knowledge of what to do. They do seabass trawls in the open seas when it is a fact that the seabass live in and around structure. They don't come up with any seabass in their trawl so that proves to them that there are no seabass.

Hell, If I did a trawl at the Trenton Makes Bridge in the Delaware River and didn't come up with any Mako Shark can I then conclude that the Mako Shark is endangered? I think not.

This crap assessment has got to stop. That is the only way we will get reasonable seasons and bag and size limits. Keep the same people running the show and you will get the same production. Get rid of all of them. 

[Capt. Birch]

I disagree with the angler having to fund the studies. That is what we are paying the government to do with all of the taxes that we now pay for the fishing tackle and the fuel we burn in our boats.

It is the government and their ineptness that is causing the grief. We pay their salaries and they can not perform the job that they are being paid to do. Throwing more money in their face will not give them any better knowledge of what to do. They do seabass trawls in the open seas when it is a fact that the seabass live in and around structure. They don't come up with any seabass in their trawl so that proves to them that there are no seabass.

Hell, If I did a trawl at the Trenton Makes Bridge in the Delaware River and didn't come up with any Mako Shark can I then conclude that the Mako Shark is endangered? I think not.

This crap assessment has got to stop. That is the only way we will get reasonable seasons and bag and size limits. Keep the same people running the show and you will get the same production. Get rid of all of them. 

 Man I had a ton awesome sarcastic remarks and plenty to challenge your post but I think its best if I just agree to disagree. Hopefully in the near future we can get  together over a coffee and danish.Have a great holiday for you and your whole family.

[IrishAyes]

Capt Birch. Coffee and danish anytime. My treat.   

If you would, I wouldn't mind you PMing me and let me know where I am wrong on this. If I have bad info, I wouldn't want to be passing it along. 

[Bucktail]

Captain Joe and Captain Birch, although you may disagree on the whys and hows, you are both passionate advocates for our fisheries.  I commend you for that, and I'm glad to see both of you espousing your positions on this board.

Hopefully this debate is not taken behind the scenes.  Rather it should be played out here in the open forum.  And, as both of you are fighting for the same cause, there really is no need for sarcasm or anger to enter into it.

[Kenny]

   I too would like to see this discussed on the open forum

[Capt. Carl]

Take a ride from Shrewsbury river to flynns knoll from April thru June and you literally have to zig zag thru all the fish pots on the Blackfish Spawning grounds...recreational fisherman arent allowed to touch the breeders at that time....but the trappers.....thats a different story i guess.

[Capt. Birch]

Take a ride from Shrewsbury river to flynns knoll from April thru June and you literally have to zig zag thru all the fish pots on the Blackfish Spawning grounds...recreational fisherman aren't allowed to touch the breeders at that time....but the trappers.....thats a different story i guess.

Sorry but not true. The commercal landings are limited to 103000 lbs state wide for the whole year total. Permit holders cant direct target (over 100 lbs of landings) Feb March April May July August Sept Oct and land fish. When they reach the 103000 the season is shut down. The only "spring" landing season is 25 days in June. Have you personal witnessed the landings of these large breeders in large numbers out of season? Please call the warden about these poachers next time. I am not debating that you see pots in that area. They may be lobster,seabass,conch or even blackfish pots. The fact is that they can not legally land blackfish as you describe in your post.

[Fishin Dude]

Flawed science, stock assessments , reduced seasons, size/bag limits, total closure of some fisheries, commercial pots on reefs paid for with donations intended for recreational pourposes,taxes, fees, & registrations. What's next? Marine Protected Areas like California, which are closed to ALL FISHING! Believe me it could happen here too. This is why we, as recreational fishermen, need to support those groups out there who fight for our rights, and keep pressure on our elected officials to do what is right for our sport. Yes, in any group, there will be conflicting opinions, but we need to stick together, united for our cause. <'((((><

[Hotrod]

You guys can debate here.  All of you are stand up great people. And know how not to attack someone personally for their beliefs or miss information.  

Bring it!!!!    

[Kenny]

    

No cheap shots...just debate the issues...

We as a group ( Salt water fisherman ) need to put our heads together...not butt them together..

We have to work together to save our sport!!

The opposition would love nothing more than to see us fight amongst ourselves...

[IrishAyes]

To me, this is not a debate regarding recs and comms. There are issues with both. To me, this reverts back to my original post about the ineptness of the people who are making the regs. Where and how they get their figures from, etc.


Capt Birch. I re-read your post and it seems the only thing we disagree with is who should fund the studies. And at that, we are pretty much on the same page also. The only difference is...I think we pay enough 'funding' as it is. The feds just are not using the 'funding' properly.

[Capt. Birch]

To me, this is not a debate regarding recs and comms. There are issues with both. To me, this reverts back to my original post about the ineptness of the people who are making the regs. Where and how they get their figures from, etc.


Capt Birch. I re-read your post and it seems the only thing we disagree with is who should fund the studies. And at that, we are pretty much on the same page also. The only difference is...I think we pay enough 'funding' as it is. The feds just are not using the 'funding' properly.

Joe as I am sure you will agree that "funding" that is used for all saltwater fisheries is a fraction of what really would be needed. Could it be spent better in places?.....I do not know.. I do know that the people I have met(some are friends some I only met once)that worked to conduct trawl surveys were very knowledgeable and capable fisherman and fisherwomen. I guess its kinda like dont hate the player hate the game. The more questions I asked them the more I understood just how complacated attemps at stock assessments must be. An example would be, They tow the same area for the same  length of time with the same mesh for 5 years. They count all biomass to get an idea of population densities. The first 4 years say each tow had 400lbs of fish ,but in the 5 year it was on 100lbs. What happen? did the stocks collapse or did a cold upwelling push the fish out? IMHO we as rec fisherman need to get much better informed and educated to be a force for real reform. Read just about any internet web site and they are full of stuff that just is not true(dragger's took all the fluke,them com guys can take all they want,they throw back more than they keep..etc)or how about 7 million lbs is way better than 32 million lbs as is the case with fluke

[Capt. Birch]

Cont....
They main reason I believe that if fisherman fund many of the studies they can then be peer review and declared as true science (good or bad). We as fisherman can then have the ability to put our foot on the throat of managers to fully exploit the stocks without overfishing them. I do know that the angler registry was passed in 2006 to better help us as fisherman. I do not think I read one post on a site that viewed it as a positive. We all know MFSS suck but I really do not see any support from fellow recs to improve on survey methods)(I have to pay,they are taking away my rights,nobody ever called me....etc) How many fish are we catching? anybody got a good guess or an idea how to count them. Commercials have landing reports and receipts. I do believe we as recs have many battles that need to be fought but again we need to be upset over real things(and yes there are plenty) and not hear say and things that just are not true. OK I am know on my way to Virginia to the Mid Atlantic council meeting. Lets hope Congressman Pallones letter easies the pain.

[IrishAyes]

Again we are on the same page Capt Birch. I will agree that the funding is pretty poor. But for us to throw more money at the feds, I don't think that is the answer either.

Unless/until they get a better way to access the catch and the amount of fish that are in the ocean I don't think we will get anywhere with the regs. All they keep preaching is, we have to tighten our belts. Well, pretty soon there are no notches left on the belt to tighten. I think we are getting to that point.

There is now some talk about having a 1, 2 or 5 fish limit on seabass!?!?!? How is that? The season was closed for about a quarter of the year in 2010 and they are saying we overfished our limit? Where did those figures some from?

I do not have any personal knowledge from anyone in the industry of regulation, but I have not really heard any of them ANYWHERE describing a realistic way of how they come up with their figures.

As far as the trawls, you know yourself that you can fish a spot today and hammer the fish. Come back in the afternoon and you get the skunk. Doesn't mean that there are no more fish to be found. Just that the fish were not where you were at the time. I think the same holds true with their trawls. Granted, over a period of time you SHOULD get an idea of what is happening, but as you have said, could it be the conditions were different?

At any rate, until the feds come up with REAL science, I will have a hard time reaching the same conclusions as they do.

Oh, I'm still good for a coffee and danish.