Press Clarifies NJOA Position on Free Registry

[CaptTB]

NJDiver, as you know,but failed to include in your post, NJ would receive 5% of the money {about 10,000,000 dollars}  if S1122 included one dollar for NJBMFS or 1% without the fee about $ 2.4 million.  This does not including  the grant money NJ will continue to lose.

Strange, that is not what the USF&W Service said in their letter to NJOA/Sport Federation.

At the NJOA "meetings" (I hesitate to call them that, but no other word comes to mind) Rob Winkle, former Chief CEO for the NJ Div of F&W read a letter from the US Fish and Wildlife Service in answer to the Federation's inquiry. The service stated in no uncertain terms that a 2 or 3 dollar fee did NOT constitute "license revenue" and would NOT be eligible for WB funds.

Perhaps the federal government has seen the error of their ways, but I would contact the federation and/or NJOA if I were you. I know I have a copy of that letter somewhere, but am not inclined to look for it just this moment.

Rob or Tom Fote or Anthony Mauro will gladly give you a copy I am sure, Rob read it aloud at the NJOA meeting.

[Capt. Mac]

TB, Regardless of what they say, the law is clear. Remember, one dollar must make it to NJFW. $1 dollar fee and NJ saltwater fishermen pickup about $10,000,000 dollars in DJSF funds, plus millions in grant money annually. No needed whatsoever for NJ tax payer dollars in the NJBMFS budget.



I know you have seen this but for those who have not:

PART 80—ADMINISTRATIVE REQUIREMENTS, PITTMAN-ROBERTSON WILDLIFE RESTORATION AND DINGELL-JOHNSON SPORT FISH RESTORATION ACTS
****The law states:
§ 80.10 State certification of licenses.
(a) To ensure proper apportionment of Federal funds, the Service requires that each director of a State fish and wildlife agency:
(1) Specify a license certification period that:
(i) Is 12 consecutive months in length;
(ii) Is either the State’s fiscal year or license year;
(iii) Is consistent from year to year; and
(iv) Ends no less than 1 year and no more than 2 years before the beginning of the Federal fiscal year that the apportioned funds first become available for expenditure;
(2) The State may count only those persons who possess a license that produced net revenue of at least $1 per year returned to the State after deducting costs directly associated with issuance of the license.
Examples of such costs are agents’ or sellers’ fees and the cost of printing, distribution, and control

[CaptTB]

TB, Regardless of what they say, the law is clear. Remember, one dollar must make it to NJFW. $1 dollar fee and NJ saltwater fishermen pickup about $10,000,000 dollars in DJSF funds, plus millions in grant money annually. No needed whatsoever for NJ tax payer dollars in the NJBMFS budget.

Actually it does matter Ken/out of towner/Whatever. Since they are the service that administers the fund it matters a great deal what they say.

Notice though that in your last post you said this:

NJDiver, as you know,but failed to include in your post, NJ would receive 5% of the money {about 10,000,000 dollars}  if S1122 included one dollar for NJBMFS or 1% without the fee about $ 2.4 million.

That statement is of course false. The bill could not include $1.00 for the division, since, if you look below at the text from the law you yourself copied and pasted, it has to be $1.00 AFTER expenses, which means you'd need to charge more than a dollar.

See? Look at what you posted:

PART 80—ADMINISTRATIVE REQUIREMENTS, PITTMAN-ROBERTSON WILDLIFE RESTORATION AND DINGELL-JOHNSON SPORT FISH RESTORATION ACTS
****The law states:
§ 80.10 State certification of licenses.
(a) To ensure proper apportionment of Federal funds, the Service requires that each director of a State fish and wildlife agency:
(1) Specify a license certification period that:
(i) Is 12 consecutive months in length;
(ii) Is either the State’s fiscal year or license year;
(iii) Is consistent from year to year; and
(iv) Ends no less than 1 year and no more than 2 years before the beginning of the Federal fiscal year that the apportioned funds first become available for expenditure;
(2) The State may count only those persons who possess a license that produced net revenue of at least $1 per year returned to the State after deducting costs directly associated with issuance of the license.
Examples of such costs are agents’ or sellers’ fees and the cost of printing, distribution, and control

Notice the bold part. Well, according to the agency that controls and manages the fund, that includes far more than the $1.01 the state needs to administer the license. As shown in the examples given from the law you quoted, all printing costs to make people aware of the license would have to be covered, plus "control" of the license which includes all enforcement costs to enforce the license requirement, and the list goes on.

That is why the USF&W stated that 15$ or more is what they would consider.

[Capt. Mac]

   TB, I clearly said, if one dollar was included” for NJBMF, NJ would receive a full share of DJSR funds, bout $10,000,000 dollars for 2011 alone. Couple that with millions in grant money opportunities.
 Non government agencies estimated it would cost about 600,000 dollars to run the saltwater fishermen registry. With the current estimate of NJ saltwater fishermen a five dollar fee would cover the cost of the registry and leave more than a $1 dollar for NJBMF.     The free registry must also be controlled and advertized. In administration cost there is no difference between a free registry and a license.
To save $5 dollars, we lose 10,000,000 million plus dollars annually. Even if it cost 15 dollars which it will not, it would be well worth it. All of the money is protected by federal law and must be used for sport fish only.
Now you know why New Jersey is facing a 10 billion dollar deficit.


15 dollars is what the federal government wants to run the registry, more than likely it can be done for less.
 

[IrishAyes]

TB, I clearly said, if one dollar was included” for NJBMF, NJ would receive a full share of DJSR funds, bout $10,000,000 dollars for 2011 alone. Couple that with millions in grant money opportunities.
 Non government agencies estimated it would cost about 600,000 dollars to run the saltwater fishermen registry. With the current estimate of NJ saltwater fishermen a five dollar fee would cover the cost of the registry and leave more than a $1 dollar for NJBMF.     The free registry must also be controlled and advertized. In administration cost there is no difference between a free registry and a license.
To save $5 dollars, we lose 10,000,000 million plus dollars annually. Even if it cost 15 dollars which it will not, it would be well worth it. All of the money is protected by federal law and must be used for sport fish only.
Now you know why New Jersey is facing a 10 billion dollar deficit.
15 dollars is what the federal government wants to run the registry, more than likely it can be done for less.
 

Ok, let's all stop fishing so the state can get out of it's 10 billion dollar deficit. 

Ben, I don't know what you do for a living, but perhaps you should run for governmor next time around and straighten out this whole mess that other, not so enlightened, people got us into. I'm sure you have a plan that will enable every citizen in New Jersey to immediately retire and buy a winter home in Florida.

[Capt. Mac]

A word from a non fishing group on the issue:

The Coalition of Civic Associations of Cape May County (COCA) is made up of a number of civic/home owners/taxpayer organizations with a combined membership of over 20,000 Cape May County citizens. Our purpose is to represent all member organizations and speak with a unified voice on vital countywide and statewide issues of common concern. We strongly support a properly written New Jersey fishing license to take the place of a “free registration.” A “free registration” would place another approximately $1 million burden on the Marine Fishery budget. The New Jersey Marine Fishery is a multi billion-dollar industry in our state. Currently, it is grossly under funded. The New Jersey Marine Fishery should receive additional funding from the state. Cutting funding to fund a “free registration” would leave marine fishery without sufficient funds to have the staff needed to keep in compliance. Being out of compliance means no fish, which is unacceptable. A New Jersey fishing license would place money into the Hunter Angler Fund. Federal money would be added to the Hunter Angler Fund from Wallop Breaux. Wallop Breaux moneys are calculated from the number of licensed fishermen. This results in more federal money. New Jersey is the only State on the East Coast that does not already have/is working on a salt water license. Currently New Jersey fishermen pay a license fee to fish in New York and Delaware shared waters and these moneys are helping to add to the funds these other states’ efforts to fight for fish. We are asking support to have a properly written New Jersey fishing license, not a “free registration,” to save/secure our multi billion dollar fishing industry. LARRY KRATZER Stone Harbor

[The dropoff]

A word from a non fishing group on the issue:

The Coalition of Civic Associations of Cape May County (COCA) is made up of a number of civic/home owners/taxpayer organizations with a combined membership of over 20,000 Cape May County citizens. Our purpose is to represent all member organizations and speak with a unified voice on vital countywide and statewide issues of common concern. We strongly support a properly written New Jersey fishing license to take the place of a “free registration.” A “free registration” would place another approximately $1 million burden on the Marine Fishery budget. The New Jersey Marine Fishery is a multi billion-dollar industry in our state. Currently, it is grossly under funded. The New Jersey Marine Fishery should receive additional funding from the state. Cutting funding to fund a “free registration” would leave marine fishery without sufficient funds to have the staff needed to keep in compliance. Being out of compliance means no fish, which is unacceptable. A New Jersey fishing license would place money into the Hunter Angler Fund. Federal money would be added to the Hunter Angler Fund from Wallop Breaux. Wallop Breaux moneys are calculated from the number of licensed fishermen. This results in more federal money. New Jersey is the only State on the East Coast that does not already have/is working on a salt water license. Currently New Jersey fishermen pay a license fee to fish in New York and Delaware shared waters and these moneys are helping to add to the funds these other states’ efforts to fight for fish. We are asking support to have a properly written New Jersey fishing license, not a “free registration,” to save/secure our multi billion dollar fishing industry. LARRY KRATZER Stone Harbor

Ken now that is funny.  Not one cent of mine will go to support this. 

Try again Ken

[IrishAyes]

Now you are trying to be one way. I fish in NEW JERSEY. Why should I subsidise your (or anyone elses) wanting to fish in DELAWARE waters or someone who want to fish in NEW YORK waters. Cut the string from that issue right now. We are supposed to be supporting the MAJORITY of New Jersey fishermen, not just the ones who fish along the border with other states. I won't make this an issue between those who fish border states and I don't expect you to either.

Again Ben, you throw numbers out, 20,000 Cape May county citizens. AND EVERYONE OF THEM ARE FOR A LICENSE. That is so unbelievable that I won't even address it. Ben, the more you type, the more creditability you loose.

[Capt. Mac]

IrishAyes, I did not write it, I am not even a member. That is the position of the Coalition of Civic Associations of Cape May County, on the saltwater license and the free registry issue as an organization.  Irish, the fact is the list of organizations that support a NJ saltwater license continues to grow. Please do not shoot the messenger.

[Hotrod]

The Coalition of Civic Associations of Cape May County (COCA) is made up of a number of civic/home owners/taxpayer organizations with a combined membership of over 20,000 Cape May County citizens.

[IrishAyes]

That list only grows because of all the misinformation that is passed along by messengers.

[njdiver]

IrishAyes, I did not write it, I am not even a member. That is the position of the Coalition of Civic Associations of Cape May County, on the saltwater license and the free registry issue as an organization.  Irish, the fact is the list of organizations that support a NJ saltwater license continues to grow. Please do not shoot the messenger.

Prove it!  Corrobrate your statement!

[IrishAyes]

NJDiver, as you know,but failed to include in your post, NJ would receive 5% of the money {about 10,000,000 dollars}  if S1122 included one dollar for NJBMFS or 1% without the fee about $ 2.4 million.

So, pretty much what you are saying (if this is to be believed and I have not been convinced that it is as you say) is that if the fisherpeople of New Jersey were to each fork over $1 (one dollar) to the New Jersey government in the form of a 'profit' made by New Jersey for a fishing license/registration, the federal government of the United States of America will give the government of New Jersey $10,000,000 (ten million dollars). The only thing that New Jersey has to do is to collect $1 a fisherperson to get all of this money? WOW, WHAT A COUNTRY!!!

Ah, but wait, I do have a question or two.

1.) Where is the government of the United States of America getting the $10,000,000 (ten million dollars) to give to the government of the State of New Jersey? Perhaps from the fisherpeople who have paid federal tax on their fishing tackle?

2.) Why would the federal government mandate a $1 profit fee? Especially if they are not going to be the reciprient of it.

3.) Who's on first?

4.) Who wants to buy a bridge?

5.) How does the kool-aid taste?

If this were factual there is not one politician in New Jersey would would not jump on this band wagon. Apparently, all of the truth has not been presented.

Also, if this were factual, then you BEN, are fighting the wrong battle. If the federal government were to hold us hostage for a $1 donation to the state in order to get 10,000,000 of our dollars released to where it should be going, then you (along with everyone else) should be fighting to get this corrected and not to pay for a license.

[njdiver]

NJDiver, as you know,but failed to include in your post, NJ would receive 5% of the money {about 10,000,000 dollars}  if S1122 included one dollar for NJBMFS or 1% without the fee about $ 2.4 million.  This does not including  the grant money NJ will continue to lose.

Here is where you once again lose credibility with your off the wall statements.  If you had taken the time to look, even a State like California, which has the highest fee for their saltwater license and the largest shoreline of any State, is projected to receive only $ 12,400,184.00 from the Sportfish Restoration program next year.  States with comparable shorelines to NJ are Virginia, which already has a saltwater license, will receive a projected $ 3,961,550.00, Washington which already has a saltwater license, will receive a projected $ 5,283,608.00.  The only “grant money” NJ will lose is what we do not apply for due to the undermanned and underfunded Marine Fisheries Bureau.

California has 840 miles of general coastline and 3,427 miles of tidal shoreline.

Virginia has 112 miles of general coastline and 3,315 miles of tidal shoreline.

Washington 157 miles of general coastline and 3,026 miles of tidal shoreline.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001801.html

http://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/Subpages/GrantPrograms/SFR/SFRPrelimApportCertificateFY11.pdf

[CaptTB]

Now you know why New Jersey is facing a 10 billion dollar deficit.

Yes I do. Because people like you, as in government, think the best way to fix a problem or right a wrong (as in the underfunding of our marine fisheries is to simply THROW MORE MONEY AT THE PROBLEM!

Let's not worry that millions of dollars from salt water fishing is not going where it should be and let us not care that the millions of dollars in tax revenue from salt water anglers is currently going everywhere EXCEPT where it should.

Your solution to the problem is to simply make everyone pay EVEN MORE MONEY than they already are.

You are correct, now I know EXACTLY why we are in this financial mess, because of people with the same mentality as YOU!

[Capt. Mac]

  Njdiver, Actually I did a bit of research, including speaking with John Organ ,Chief, Division of Wildlife  @ sport fish Restoration.
As far as your reason for New Jersey losing millions in grant money, that is the case sometimes. However, Federal grants can require the State to have a saltwater license in place as a prerequisite. Really, what is your point, NJ is out millions of Dollars either way it falls. Yes, you are correct that they consider the amount of shore line for state appropriations of DJSR funds. That however does not change the fact: the lack of a saltwater license is costing NJ millions in DJSF funds. Mater of fact John Organ Chief, Division of Wildlife & Sport Fish Restoration said, NJ would  receive  money today, if NJ had a saltwater license.

[Capt. Mac]

IrishAyes, I did not write it, I am not even a member. That is the position of the Coalition of Civic Associations of Cape May County, on the saltwater license and the free registry issue as an organization.  Irish, the fact is the list of organizations that support a NJ saltwater license continues to grow. Please do not shoot the messenger.

Prove it!  Corrobrate your statement!

Today's Atlantic City Press:



'Free' saltwater registry

will end up costing N.J.

A free saltwater fishing registry sounds OK, until you look at what it will cost the residents of New Jersey and the saltwater fisherman. As a matter of fact, if Gov. Chris Christie signs the bill, it will be the most expensive free legislation ever passed in the history of the state.

The "free" registry It will cost $10 million in 2011 alone in Dingell-Johnson sport-fishing restoration funds. New Jersey will continue to lose millions of dollars annually of the Dingell-Johnson funds if the bill is not amended to include a fee. If a fee was included and just $1 went to the N.J. Bureau of Marine Fisheries, New Jersey would receive a full share of the Dingell-Johnson funds.

New Jersey will also continue to lose millions in grant money, like the $150 million federal grant Florida was expected to receive last year. Florida planned to build saltwater hatcheries, creating 3,129 immediate construction jobs and 169 permanent green jobs. Can New Jersey afford to let $150 million grant opportunities go by?

At this point, the free saltwater registry bill is an unfunded mandate with a $600,000 price tag that the New Jersey taxpayer is going to get stuck with - that's what it will cost to implement and manage the free registry. The bill does absolutely nothing to enhance saltwater fishing in New Jersey. It will eventually lead to a closure of the most coveted N.J. saltwater fishing seasons by the federal government.

We do not want or expect N.J. taxpayers to pay any of the cost of our sport. The state's saltwater fishermen overwhelmingly support a saltwater license.

KEN McDERMOTT

Vice President

Cape May/Cumberland County

Saltwater Sportsman's Alliance

Cape May Court House

[IrishAyes]

Again, I will ask. Where is this money coming from that the feds want to so kindly give to NJ for paying a ransom?

I suspect that it would be coming from the same saltwater fisherpeople who paid the federal tax on their fishing tackle.

And, just because you post an opinion by some alliance does not make it true. Pose my question to them and let me know the answer please.

[The dropoff]

KEN McDERMOTT

Vice President

Cape May/Cumberland County

Saltwater Sportsman's Alliance

Cape May Court House


I have not been able to find anything on this group or Alliance. This must be Ken's made up group.  If anyone can help me find something other that what is posted would be nice.

Thanks for the help with locating this Alliance.  But if no one can may be we should call the press and let them know there is no group. 

Thanks again and if you do not want to post you can send me an e-mail.

[IrishAyes]

Just some more information on Ben and his tactics.

I checked Ken's (Ben) site. Almost puked after reading what is on it. Here is the poll he posted for a saltwater license vote. Notice there are only two options. Both requiring a license/registration. Seems kind of trashy not to have a 'I don't want a license/registration' option. You only get to pick from one of these two:

1.) NJ salt water license with a law dedicating the funds to enhance nj fishing

2.) Set up the mandated registry with the funds going to the us general fund

Is this an unbiased poll? I think not!

I also have not found anything on the saltwater sportsmen alliance