A little more about these cinder worms. I have only paddled into the middle of a hatch (it's actually a spawn) once, and didn't see any surface fish action, and didn't get any action on my line either. After doing a little research, it seems that when fish are feeding on these worms they become very selective, to the point that experienced fishermen will just pack up and leave if they can't "match the hatch". This is an example where the fly boys have a big advantage over everyone else. So JR, that was a good call. One other bait comes to mind, though. Gulp makes an earthworm bait, bout 3" long - chop one of those in half and you got a perfect imitation.