First Boat Research / Info Needed

[rycher]

Considering the investment. Looking for any info you can provide to a first time owner ie: yearly expense post purchase including insur, maintence, etc.

Goal is to buy a family fishing boat for bay/ocean.

Walkaround seems model of choice.
Any make? model?? length sugestions???

[Reckless]

Depends are you going to trailer or slip? Not counting fuel or repairs it cost me about $200 a month $2400  year. Thats in a slip. I have a 21 ft CC with a 150 Yamaha. Depending on the age of your kids should determine what kind of boat.  Some where to put a porta potty with kids and wife.

[Luna Sea 5]

-good used boat.. $20,000

-fuel... $1.00 more a gallon on the water then on land

-If you have a 4 stroke, have to buy oil at around $70 per gallon

- boat slip, approx $3,000 per season

- winterization, approx $1,000.00

[Reckless]

I guess it depends on where you slip. I pay 1650 for 21 ft.

[Hotrod]

Considering the investment.

There is your first mistake....it's more like a money pit

My Tips.  

Go one size bigger than you think your OK with..

As I love center consoles, we don't live in Florida.
Cover is good, Staying dry in the sprig and fall is a must

Good luck in your search.  keep us up to date

-good used boat.. $20,000



-If you have a 4 stroke, have to buy oil at around $70 per gallon

  Did you mean 2 stroke?

[Offshore Madness]

There are many questions that will have many answers when you ask what type of boat should i buy.

 First and formost you have to look at ur budget and keep it with in it.Second how much experiance do you have? did u ever drive a boat?launch or take one in and out of a slip? You have to take this in consideration!! Third what will you use it for the most? fishin,crabbin,cruising or family? The costs will vary depending on what you use it for.

 For example  if u have a 100 gallon tank and its 3.27 a gallon there's 327.00 to fill it, then bait that depends also could be as low as killies and squid for around 15 bucks or if you go offshore well ur in the hundreds then.Then food and drinks there a 50. Slips also vary from 85 to 120 a foot so to average it a 22 foot boat times a 100 a foot you got 2,200.00 right there or u could launch it a 20 a pop or a season pass for around 400.00.

 If you shop around you find higher/lower prices.The one other thing to remember its your boat, buy what fits you and ur budget.

 Good luck in your search for ur new vessel.

[Offshore Madness]

[quote author=Luna Sea 4 link=topic=24821.msg210154#msg210154 date=131906

-If you have a 4 stroke, have to buy oil at around $70 per gallon

  We pay 25.00 a gallon

[bossross]

So, having made this leap myself 4 years ago (I bought my first boat in 2007 and then traded it in 2008 for my current boat.) I would offer the following advice (and have) to a friend who asked me these questions....

1. I'd look to buy a workable, used (read: "Older") boat to start with to ensure that the "family" really likes being on the water. Use that for a year or two and if you find that you like it, trade up. If you find that the family hates it (which is a possibility) your potential loss is minimized.

2. For family fishing (which is exactly what I wanted) I would go with a walk-around. I have a center console and I love it, but if I had to do it over again, I would go with a WA. The cabin is good for the kids to get out of the weather when necessary.

3. I agree that you ultimately want to go a little bigger than you initially think you need. When I started I thought a 24' CC was huge, I bought a 27' and frankly I wish I had gone 30. Beam is probably much more important than length.

4. I assume you're looking at outboards, gotta go with 4 strokes, I've had both and the 4 strokes are much more "family friendly" (read - they're quiet)The are also (in my opinion) a bit easier to maintain and if you're asking these questions, I'm thinking that you're like me and easy to maintain is probably important.

5. I would not buy a boat with 1 engine (obviously talking outboards). My first boat had one and late on a Sunday in October the alternator crapped out and I had to call SeaTow, with the kids onboard. SeaTow was great, they came and got us and towed us in, took about 6 hours, we got back to the dock at 10:30pm. Two engines allow you to travel out into the ocean with more degree of safety than one.

6. If you haven't had a boat before, hire a licensed captain to spend a day (or two) on the water with you, sort of like drivers ed for the boat. I did that when I got my first boat and it was a terrific help. (I have had him back a few times since as I am very open to learning the right way of doing things, especially as I have ventured off shore more and more.) If you need a name, let me know and I'll be happy to give you the name of the fellow I use, he's terrific.

7. Make sure you buy an on water service like SeaTow or BoatUS. This is one of the best investments that you will make. Getting towed once will cost you 10 years worth of their fees. It's worth it.

8. As far as the money goes, bottom line is that it will cost more than you think. Even if you try to map it all out to the nth degree. Good dock lines will run you $100+, a dock box can cost $500, just two small examples (who thinks of those things going in?) But the bottom line is that if the kids like spending time on the water (as my son does) it will be the best investment you make. I spend so much quality time with my 12yo and we're building memories that we will have for the rest of our lives, that I can't put a price on it.

If you have any other questions, ask. I'm happy to share my experiences....

Ross

[Hotrod]

 

[Andys Delight]

Having owned 2 boats in the past 3 years, I give you this advice:  

Buy used.  $7k-$10k will find you a very good used boat.  

Worry more about the year of the engine than the year of the boat.  Having repowered 2 boats now, I csn solidly attest to this.

Ensure the boat is sound before buying.  Check transon, stringers, electronics, engine compression, the works.  If you don't know how, hire someone to do it.  For this I got lucky twice, but I have heard far too many horror stories.  

Talk to people.  There's alot of internet site with great info, most obviously this one.    But also, talk to people who own boats.  Maybe go on a few charters with different types of boats.  Hell, Id be happy to take you out on mine if you'd like.  

This goes without say, but take a certification course.  It's mandatory to do so, but don't do the quick online version.  Take the full 3 week course that the CG offers.  It's EXTREMELY informative and will make you a smarter boater and could even save your life one day.  When I'm at the helm I am constantly recalling lessons learned in the class I took.  

Once you do buy a boat, do a shakedown with a competent friend or two.  Don't pack up the family and plan a big day.  You want to get all your small mishaps (and there will be some) out of the way first.  

ALWAYS have all CG required safety equipment onboard.  You can even schedule an appointment for the CG auxiliary to do a free vessel safety check.  It gives you peace of mind and it gives you a sticker that will make you less likely to be boarded out on the water.  

Consider your needs.  I went from my first boat to my second in just over a year because the first one (a 21 foot Wellcraft cuddy) was not suitable for my 3 year old son.  I upgraded to a 23 foot Wellcraft walkaround.  While it may not seem like much, I now have 3 times the cabin space for my son to have a little place to hide from the sun, and I also have a head now.  It's also just a much bigger boat with alot more fishing room.  

If you're going to trailer it, make sure you have a good towing vehicle.  My old boat weight 2700 lbs dry.  Pack it up and consider the trailer weight and I was close to 5000 lbs, which was the max for my old Nissan Frontier.  While I was under the maximum, it was a bear to tow and not fun at all.  I use an F250 for my current boat, which probably weighs about 6-7000 lbs fully loaded with trailer.  Overkill, yes.  But it's much easier and less stressful to have too much power than it is to have just enough..

Go slow.  Not only on the water until you're comfortable, but in your pre-departure checklist.  have a plan, don't rush, don't allow distractions, and don't hesitate to double check things.  I blew my motor about a month ago because it was the one time I forgot to check my reserve oil tank before departing.  I was in a rush, and I went against everything I was ever taught and ever practiced about taking my time.  That little mishap cost me over $4k to repower.  Let my mistake be your lesson.

And lastly, always remember Break Out Another Thousand.  You will ALWAYS need a reserve of cash on hand for those "just in case" moments.

Good luck!

[rycher]

Kudos to anyone reading through my ramble. 

Thank you all for your info, it helps. But of course your answers lead to more ?'s..

Before i get to those I'll answer a few from the replys and apologize for being too brief at the onset.

I will use the boat mostly for fishing but with the wife/kids(9yrs oldx2) aboard so CC are out. Figure launch out of keyport area+fish sandy hook area (bays + outside a little)

The budget is to be determined. I am really unsure of any price/value as pertains to year/length/make/hours etc. Though seems 20k ceiling may be max.

Trailer is a no go, neither of my cars can tow a boat so its a slip or rack.
Rack is appealing given the cleaning after each trip+ Im not the kind to sit on boat in slip + chat.

I HAD years of experience launching/operating a 19" whaler over 20 years ago but that was in the calms of florida west coast/gulf region.

Bossross i will be taking you up on that capt info, thanks, i never knew such existed.

So what size? I'm thinking 22ish.

What make? Whalers are not in the budget 

What year range? My biggest fear is we stall out there and the wife freaks and turns me into a chum slick. 

boat @ 15k(buyers market  )
slip @ 2.5k
insur@ ?k
storage@?
cost per trip: gas to hop the bay?

this looks nice :

http://boats.iboats.com/2004-trophy-boats-2002-walkaround/1026956.html

[Offshore Madness]

Well with that id say a 26 ft for sure with twins. There are many boat manuf. out there.You could go for a proline,century,mako,parker,grady white or a host of others. That all comes down to what you like. Make sure you have clearance when you do get a slip, I know at kmb some boats cant leave or come in at high tides cause of the bridge.
  Like said above slow and steady do the research then make ur choice

[bossross]

The fellow I have used is Sean Carton, you can find him at www.vstarmarine.com  Great guy, I would absolutely recommend him. I've had him come out and spend a day with me on the water. We go over everything from traversing the inlet, docking, proper checklists, properly tying up the boat at the slip, anchoring, general boat handling, etc. He charges me a couple of hundred for the day. Very much worth the money.

He can also do a boat survey for you, if you're buying used, the money they will charge is well worth it to ensure that you're buying what you think you're buying.

I agree with the comments that Andy made about making sure you take the safety class. Like he says, it's mandatory, but the classroom work is very much worth it.

As far as insurance, expect to pay about $500-600 a year.

Storage - it depends on what you're having done. I pay about $3k a year for my marina to haul it, clean it, shrink wrap it, store it over the winter, unwrap, tune up, paint the bottom, launch it in the spring.

Gas - can't help you there. I launch out of Manasquan. I use the boat alot (2-3 times a week during the striper runs and once a week otherwise) and probably spend upwards to $2k a year in fuel.

Like I said before, you can't think of all the things you'll need. I lost an anchor on my last trip of the year last year, cost me $400.00 for a new SS one. Stuff happens and it costs. Bilge pumps go, cost you a couple of hundred, I had a bow line rub against my bow light and break it. Cost me $150.00 to fix. Point is that after all the $$ and aggravation, I wouldn't change it. Watching my 12 year old snag a bunker and catch a 35lb striper is worth every penny.

As far as the wife getting mad if you break down. I would explain to her that it's part of the experience. No matter how careful you are, how many precautions you take (and you need to be careful and take many precautions!) you will ultimately still have issues. Trick is to be prepared and know how to handle it if and when it does happen. (That's where the class and on-water training comes in.)

By the way, when I started in 2007, I wanted a boat to do some crabbing and fishing in Barnegat Bay. In the fall of that year I ventured out into the ocean, caught a 15 lb fish and was immediately hooked. I now go out to the canyons (I've been 70 miles offshore on my boat) several times a year. I would have never imagined that I would have taken it to this level. (and I'm by no means anywhere near most of the others on this forum who REALLY know what they're doing!)

Point is that my advice is while you think now that you know what you will need, those needs can change pretty quickly. So start out slow (and as inexpensive as you can) and see where it takes you.

Hope this helps.

Ross

[NJ Guy]

this is how my 30ft searay costs me in a slip and then stored and blocked at the marina

slip: 3000 with shore power
Winter storage with winterization and drive removals: 2000

ins: 360 per year

so just over 5 thousand invested and thats without taking it out a single time or having a single repair

id say on the side of caution a boat my size with cost you 10k per year with taking it out regularly and having no MAJOR repairs


then you might say well i dont need a 30ft boat... Im married and i have no kids my wife loves to come out though and i wouldnt go a foot smaller...

this is my third boat and each was bigger than the last by 4 ft....

like hotrod said if you say to yourself id be happy with a 24... then realistically you should get 26 or better to be really happy

and rod i also agree this is jersey some sort of cabin or enclosure goes a long way

[Luna Sea 5]

Considering the investment.

There is your first mistake....it's more like a money pit

My Tips.  

Go one size bigger than you think your OK with..

As I love center consoles, we don't live in Florida.
Cover is good, Staying dry in the sprig and fall is a must

Good luck in your search.  keep us up to date

-good used boat.. $20,000



-If you have a 4 stroke, have to buy oil at around $70 per gallon

  Did you mean 2 stroke?

yes, 2 stroke...

[Offshore Madness]

And yoiu pay 70 a gallon

[Luna Sea 5]

get your boat surveyed to make sure it's tip top.

Boating is a very expensive hobbie.

I loved my CC but not that I have the family, the Cuddie is perfect.  When I had a slip, I would sleep in the boat the night before and meet the crew in the morning.  Its a perfect getaway from the stress of home. 

I agree with the others.  If your going in a slip, go bigger.  Make sure your cuddie has everything you need for an overnight stay.  Most important is shore power hookup.  When your not there, you can trickle charge your batteries. 

The fishing part is the cheapest part of your investment.  Work on having guests with you to cut your cost.  Fuel is a killer on the water, at least a buck more a gallon. 

If you have to do this much thought in it, maybe your not ready.  If you have a budget, the odds are you will pass that budget by 50%. 

Another big mistake.. if you exhaust your funds with your purchase, then something breaks, your screwed...

If you like that boat you posted... I would go with a 26' Cuddie... add twin engines, even if they are small twins.  You will have better control of the boat, especially fishing in the area of Sandy Hook.  That water can turn on you in a second.

[IrishAyes]

Where, and better yet, why are you paying $70 a gallon for oil? I don't care if it's 2 stroke or 4 stroke, that is, at the very least, mre than DOUBLE what it should cost you. I just purchased 4 stroke Yamalube for $26 a gallon (regular price, not a sale price). 

I question the price of fuel also. Yeah, it is more expensive at the fuel dock than a land based gas station, but not by a dollar a gallon. Gasoline typically costs me thirty five cents a gallon more at the fuel dock than what it sells for at a gas station on land. Keep in mind, the gasoline at the fuel dock is usually middle grade, 89 octane and not 87 which is regular grade which most buy at the gas station for their vehicle. You need to know the price of the middle grade at your land based gas station to make an accurate comparison.

The other expenses are pretty much right on thought. I pay one hundred dollars a foot where I keep my vessel (Shark River) for a summer slip. Winter storage is thirty seven dollars a foot and only includes haul out, power washing the bottom, blocking and then launching in the spring.

Winterizing the motor is another $250-$300 or so (oil and filter change, lower unit fluid change, fuel stabilizer and fogging included).

As far as the actual boat question. As others have said, go bigger than what you anticipate you will need. A two foot difference is a lot when you talk about a boat.

Also, keep in mind that there is no such thing as a perfect 'all around boat'. Compromise is in order to have it for both fishing and family and because of that you will be lacking in some respect in both. As they say, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Amenities that are good for a family boat will be in your way for a fishing boat. Things not on a fishing boat will be much wanted for a family boat.

Bottom line is, know what you will be using the boat for the most. Then make your decision on that aspect.

Good luck with whatever it is you purchase. 

[NJ Guy]

get your boat surveyed to make sure it's tip top.

Boating is a very expensive hobbie.

I loved my CC but not that I have the family, the Cuddie is perfect.  When I had a slip, I would sleep in the boat the night before and meet the crew in the morning.  Its a perfect getaway from the stress of home. 

I agree with the others.  If your going in a slip, go bigger.  Make sure your cuddie has everything you need for an overnight stay.  Most important is shore power hookup.  When your not there, you can trickle charge your batteries. 

The fishing part is the cheapest part of your investment.  Work on having guests with you to cut your cost.  Fuel is a killer on the water, at least a buck more a gallon. 

If you have to do this much thought in it, maybe your not ready.  If you have a budget, the odds are you will pass that budget by 50%. 

Another big mistake.. if you exhaust your funds with your purchase, then something breaks, your screwed...

If you like that boat you posted... I would go with a 26' Cuddie... add twin engines, even if they are small twins.  You will have better control of the boat, especially fishing in the area of Sandy Hook.  That water can turn on you in a second.

i totally agree i just got my first boat with twins and would never go back to single engine its sooooo easy to dock and manuever in the fleet and anything else that comes up.... and if you break down at least you can put put in on one motor

[Luna Sea 5]

sorry.. correction needs to be made, i worded it wrong.  I pay $70 per container, but each container is 2 1/2 gallons.  But, I have 2 tanks for each engine at about 3 gallons each.. so $140  to fill up is a closer, realistic statement.

And yes, down in Toms River, it was exactly $1.00 more for gas on the water.