2012 Fluke regs...here are some of the options.....

[IKAT]

Carl--Is that right with the 5 fish--Cause on the ASMFC site it says 4 fish @ 17.5
Just asking bud


Table 4. Sample Options for New Jersey’s 2012 Summer Flounder Recreational Fishery
Sample
Option
Size Limit
(inches)
Bag
Limit Open Season
# days
open Liberalization
A* 18 8 May 7 – Sept 25 142 0%
B 18 8 April 28 – Oct 14 170 32%
C 18 8 April 7 – Sept 23 170 32%
D 18 8 May 5 – Oct 21 170 32%
E 17.5 4 May 5 – Sept 23 142 29%
F 17.5 4 April 29 – Sept 23 148 38%
G 17.5 4 May 5 – Sept 29 148 38%
* Option A = 2011 regulations

[Capt. Carl]

Yep....thanks Dennis...i typed 5's instead of 4's .....this changes the game a little i would say.....not sure now on the bag limit....although i still think 17.5 inches is the size to go with....rather would see 5 fish at that #

[IrishAyes]

I would not focus on the number of keepers (at 18" anyway) so much. The factor they use when determining the quota is that the average catch of keepers per man per day is 1.5 fluke at the 18" size. Therefore, they can give you a 100 fish limit at 18" and it would have absolutely no effect on the quota caught. I checked my records for the past couple of years and they are pretty much spot on with the 1.5 keepers per man per trip. At least on my boat it was that way (at an average, some days were better, some days were worse).

I don't know the average catch per day they would figure at a lower size limit but I would bet it would double going by all the almost made it fish we threw back. And that is only a guess on my part. It that were the case we would hit our quota about half way thru the season.

[Wahooo]

I can agree with the 1.5 per man per trip ,my count was down till ikat gave away that secret spot ,

[IKAT]

I can agree with the 1.5 per man per trip ,my count was down till ikat gave away that secret spot ,

YEA YEA YEA Rich  You mean the not so secret spot anymore

  Crazy drift there 

[IKAT]

I would not focus on the number of keepers (at 18" anyway) so much. The factor they use when determining the quota is that the average catch of keepers per man per day is 1.5 fluke at the 18" size. Therefore, they can give you a 100 fish limit at 18" and it would have absolutely no effect on the quota caught. I checked my records for the past couple of years and they are pretty much spot on with the 1.5 keepers per man per trip. At least on my boat it was that way (at an average, some days were better, some days were worse).

I don't know the average catch per day they would figure at a lower size limit but I would bet it would double going by all the almost made it fish we threw back. And that is only a guess on my part. It that were the case we would hit our quota about half way thru the season.

IRISH--this is just about what I was trying to say--Now if they lower the bag limit to 4  what are they going to do next year--Like NY  2 fish @ 20 +

Just look @ the winter flounder 2@12--And yes I know the winter flounder got overfished-hence the ban on the draggers in certain areas a few years back.

I think you are right about the 1.5 PP and I think it would not only double but triple at 4 fish.

2 @ 17.5 and 4 at 18--or whatever???
The problem still comes down to inforcement-not happening!!

[Pops Soul]

The problem still comes down to inforcement-not happening!!

  You hit the nail on the head IKAT

[Capt. Carl]

The frustrating part is this....Dennis....you said it yourself....at 17.5 inches the keeper per man # will triple...maybe quadruple.....i want to know why year after year everyone says with all the 17 inch fish i caught this year....next year should be great!....then next year comes and it still is a 1.5 keeper per man average 
Lets face the reality....we have had crap regulations for the last 6 years between size limits and 3 month seasons....the populations are at the highest they have been in years and stable..... Give me a season where i can go out and have a legit chance of bringing 3 or 4 keepers home for the plate.....give the surf fisherman a season they can bring some meat home for the table.....give the people who dont own boats at all, but still go rent the skiffs at our local marinas, a shot to bring home fish in the shallow waters of the bay without putting themselves at risk trying to go further than they should to get a keeper.  time to reap some damn rewards in my book

[IrishAyes]

Carl, you are absolutely right about giving the fisherman some meat to bring home.

The silly amount of flounder that are out there...well, we all know the amount of 17s we are throwing back. But under the regs/quota they are giving us, we need the best mix between size and numbers. It is really the quota that dictates that. We need a higher quota to get the size/bag quota on par with what it should be.

[IKAT]

Carl, You know from all of our conversations about this-I would be all over a 16--16.5 size not 17.5.

I am with you 100% on getting everyone there "FAIR" share of fish.

But now in this day and age we have to watch who/whom is making these regs. and what "they" are trying to do with them. So, I am older but been fishing the Raritan, Nav. and Barney since 1956 except for the 10 years I missed 14 without a boat.I was there to watch the people migrate to NJ and Do understand the need for regs (just not what we are getting now)just by the numbers of people in the state now.

In my opinion there first mistake was making these regulations without thinking HOW to enforce them!!!
If you think I don't know about your "FRUSTRATION"--Ask some of us about when the regs. were more lenient used to KEEP fish for how much meat they had -NOT just because the were LEGAL size--So our old 10 fish limit did not matter as we were happy with 5-6 fish with some weight to them.

Just an example tell me why the winter flounder season opens in MARCH
there's your regs.--OF course there aren't any used to fish for them in Dec.--March-And you know I did that RECON trip in Dec.-2010 and tons of them around.

Now as you said--What good will it do to have 17.5 @ 4 fish-and as you said and no 17.5 fish again!!!!!

As I said to you on the phone-The people that go on the charter-head-party boats--When they see 4 fish-I don't think will be good for any buss.

We can debate this forever but as been posted and look at last years options "they did what they wanted anyway) even with all the Great people that went to the meeting and gave legit info for the regulations. Go to the ASMFC site and look what the base there findings on as per there last meeting--the charts are there--Want to talk about Frustration

Here is the link to the pdf file-click bookmarks--nj--page 37


http://asmfc.org/

[striperdad]

Option 2 looks good.

[ReelFun]

Carl,

Option 4........hands down. For a couple of guys in the business, I, for one, want to be on the water with fluke as long as possible. And so do you! Your option "8" will NEVER HAPPEN, but I'm sure you're just joking on that. Once again, I looking at this strickly from a business point of view. I'm sure there are people who will choose any number of those options to best fit their agenda.

But for the benefit of the "greatest" number of fisherman on the water and for the greatest amount of time with the most in demand fish we have here in NJ, option 4.

Just my thoughts Carl.

[NJ Guy]

 

Carl,

Option 4........hands down. For a couple of guys in the business, I, for one, want to be on the water with fluke as long as possible. And so do you! Option "8" will NEVER HAPPEN. I'm sure you're just joking on that. Once again, I looking at this strickly from a business point of view. I'm sure there are people who will choose any number of those options to best fit their agenda.

But for the benefit of the "greatest" number of fisherman on the water and for the greatest amount of time with the most in demand fish we have here in NJ, option 4.

Just my thoughts Carl.

 

[IKAT]

I guess we will know soon what it will be

If you want to hear the people that do this

Just log into there meeting Here

https://www1.gotomeeting.com/register/695704801

[Luna Sea 5]

really, how many people need a 8 limit per person.  Can you honestly eat 8 fish inbetween fishing trips.  If you want more, go more often.  With that said, I would take a 4 fish limit with a 17" size limit and a long season.  This isn't a choice though. 

so, the alternative, longer season, less fish, so 5,6,7 will work for me, but I also have to look hard at number 4 with the extended season.

[BigAl13]

This is a topic  which everyone sees it differently. If the 1.5 per man is the number that is holding true over all you have to look at it like this. When you have 6+ people aboard the numbers per man will be lower, when i go out its normally myself and or 1 other person so if a boat with 6 guys catches 9 fish at 1.5 per man. and another boat with 2 guys catches 9 fish its 4.5 per man so maybe the total number of fish per boat is more important than fish per man. 

[IKAT]

This is a topic  which everyone sees it differently. If the 1.5 per man is the number that is holding true over all you have to look at it like this. When you have 6+ people aboard the numbers per man will be lower, when i go out its normally myself and or 1 other person so if a boat with 6 guys catches 9 fish at 1.5 per man. and another boat with 2 guys catches 9 fish its 4.5 per man so maybe the total number of fish per boat is more important than fish per man. 

Al-Not to confuse you --The 1.5 is an average per angler. So if you fished 10 days and the 2 guys got 9 fish total--You would be at 0.9 fish.

As Capt.Carl and I posted these OPTIONS are not in stone yet.

Below from the minutes of that meeting

Although not presented, other dual
size/bag limit options with a 1-fish bag and 17.5-inch minimum size / x-fish bag and 18-inch
minimum size will be developed using the methodology that is accepted by the Technical
Committee.
page 4
Please keep in mind that the options in this proposal reflect possibilities. NJ’s Marine
Fisheries Council Summer Flounder Committee and its advisors will meet in March to
recommend to the Council the option(s) for 2012. The Council will meet in April to select an
option. The option they select may or may not be one of the examples provided, but it will have
been developed using the methodology(ies) that are accepted by the Technical Committee and
approved by the Management Board.
The Technical Committee recommends precautionary measures be used when developing
management options. While crafting the sample options listed in Table 4 and 5b, the following
concerns were considered:
 Percent Standard Error (PSE) for NJ’s 2011 harvest estimates is 9%.
 2010 and 2011 recreational summer flounder harvest estimates may be underestimated.
 The 38% allowed liberalization represents the difference of the 2012 target in relation to
the 2011 harvest estimate.
 The 2011 regulations were developed to achieve the 2011 target.
 The 2012 target is 18% less than the 2011 target.
 Constraining the season has been effective for reducing harvest, the converse is also true;
i.e.: in 2003 NJ increased season by 34-days and the harvest increased 80%.
 Bag/size limit table from 2007 was utilized for calculating percent liberalizations.
 Year class strength of 2008 and 2009
 Target fishing effort declined significantly in 2011
Notes:
 NJ’s 2011 summer flounder recreational regulations:
18” size limit; 8-fish bag limit; open season from May 7 to September 25.
 NJ’s 2011 recreational summer flounder target = 1,335,000 fish
 NJ’s 2011 preliminary recreational summer flounder harvest estimate = 787,234 fish
 NJ’s 2012 recreational summer flounder target = 1,090,407 fish

[fathergll]

1.. 18 inch @ 8  fish...May 7 - September 25 0%
2... 18 inch @ 8 fish... April 28 - October 14 32%
3... 18 inch @ 8 fish....April 7 - September 23 32%
4....18 inch @ 8 fish.... May 5 - October 21 32%
5....17.5 inch @ 5 fish... May 5 - September 23 29%
6 ...17.5 inch @ 5 fish... April 29 - September 23 38%
7 ...17.5 inch @ 5 fish... May 5 - September 29 38%


My biggest problems with these 'regulations' is that that they are never fair. Shore fisherman do not average 1.5 fish per day at 18". Its just too big of a size, so basically all the fish are taken by boat guys primarily in the Ocean or large bays. I'm stuck with the problem of taking home 2-3 fish a season....its just tons of throwbacks. As the size limits keep going up the only way to bring anything home is via a boat. I would say 16" would get me an average of 1.5 per man a day. 18" is ridiculous. I wish there was a way to have bigger size regulations for boats in the ocean since they are bringing in the majority of the quota. I'm stuck with basically catch and release as it is

[BigAl13]

1.. 18 inch @ 8  fish...May 7 - September 25 0%
2... 18 inch @ 8 fish... April 28 - October 14 32%
3... 18 inch @ 8 fish....April 7 - September 23 32%
4....18 inch @ 8 fish.... May 5 - October 21 32%
5....17.5 inch @ 5 fish... May 5 - September 23 29%
6 ...17.5 inch @ 5 fish... April 29 - September 23 38%
7 ...17.5 inch @ 5 fish... May 5 - September 29 38%


My biggest problems with these 'regulations' is that that they are never fair. Shore fisherman do not average 1.5 fish per day at 18". Its just too big of a size, so basically all the fish are taken by boat guys primarily in the Ocean or large bays. I'm stuck with the problem of taking home 2-3 fish a season....its just tons of throwbacks. As the size limits keep going up the only way to bring anything home is via a boat. I would say 16" would get me an average of 1.5 per man a day. 18" is ridiculous. I wish there was a way to have bigger size regulations for boats in the ocean since they are bringing in the majority of the quota. I'm stuck with basically catch and release as it is

Im not sure where your fishing but some areas i fish im casting at the beach and there casting at me and though were not filling the coolers both sides are catching. I fished only from shore untill last year when i got a boat and even though its a little harder moving around theres keepers there.

[fathergll]

Im not sure where your fishing but some areas i fish im casting at the beach and there casting at me and though were not filling the coolers both sides are catching. I fished only from shore untill last year when i got a boat and even though its a little harder moving around theres keepers there.

I am fishing in Point Pleasant Beach in water an average water depth of 12 feet near the mouth of the inlet. The throwback to keeper ratio can be easily 50 to 1. And there is a lot of 16"-17" fish mixed in. I can also watch 20-30 other fisherman in my area on a daily basis and very few keepers are caught.

If the size limit was 16" with one keeper or two keepers then that would actually put everyone on a much more even playing ground of 1.5 fish per man because then the bay guys would have a fair share at the quota. As of now boat fisherman in the Ocean are taking the majority of the fish home.