NJ Saltwater Fisherman Forums
NJ Saltwater Fishing Reports and Information => Helping Each Other Out => Topic started by: bassnblues on February 04, 2008, 08:41:50 AM
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I was considering going to 80 or 100lb floro leader this spring when the blues show up in Raritan Bay.
I usually use 30 lb and more often than not, go to wire after losing a few rigs to blues. I hate using wire because I feel it turns the bass off a little. Although, I have caught pleny of bass with a wire leader I still lose confidence.
I figure the heavy floro will last for a couple of blues and if tuna arent turned off by it, then stripers shouldn't. Any thoughts?
Also, what kind of knot is good for heavy floro? Are crimps required?
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Palomar not if going that heavy. I have gone that route and believe me, a 10-12lb blue is biting thru 80lb mono. I pretty much use circle hooks for bass now (especially when live lining) and that has helped cut down on the bite offs as it usually gets them in the corner of the mouth.
When chunking, only use the head. 80%^ of time, blues won't touch them but the bass love'm.
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Forget the heavy fluro. Even if you can make it through a few bluefish assaults on your rig, would you trust a nicked up leader to losing a possible 30lb + striper that may pick up your bait on the next drop??
30 lb fluro, 25 yds, 14 bucks
6/0 Gami octo, 25 pack, 11 bucks
Figuring you'll use a 3- 4 foot leader on your rig, you can make 22-23 rigs from these materials. Adding in swivels and a fishfinder, your making rigs for less than 1.50 each.
A drop in the bucket compared to the chance at fish of a lifetime.
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True about losing a fish to a nicked leader.
My goal is to be able to get the blue in and re-tie rather than lose it.
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TRUE circle hooks is your answer.
Better for the bass too.
Especially since you will be releasing most of the ones you catch. Unless you don't catch many ;)
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.
My goal is to be able to get the blue in and re-tie rather than lose it.
WHY??? ??? ??? ;D
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Bass
I use a 60 lb Floro Carbon Leader....when the Blues come in I switch my hooks from regular to a hook with a 4 1/2 wire trace and tie that on my 36" leader.
The short wire trace saves many bite offs and the bass are not hook shy as most of the trace is in the clam or bunker chunk TT^ TT^ TT^ TT^ works like a charm t^
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I've never had to go over #50 on leader when blues are a problem when chunking/clamming the bay for springtime bass.
Before the bluefish enter in force, I'm using #20 (sometime seven lighter especially in April). Most nights in may I'm starting off with #30 then bump to #40 if bites become too numerous. One thing I usualy do is pre-tie up to a dozen rigs, then all I have to do is cut off the broken rig below the swivel & tie on the pre-tied rig. Alot quicker than having to tie up a new rig while the bite is on.
IMHO, the heavier the leader restricts or hinders the natural appearence of a clam belly of bunker chunk/head as it lays in the current.
Using circle hooks helps cut down on the # of bite offs.
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I agree with Slolmann, all my leaders (I make them myself) are 40# as I do 99% of my fishing off the beach and I haven't had much problem with nicks, scratches, or dings in the leader material.
Another reason for floro is its springy ability. I use from 24 - 30" leaders and this also acts as a shock leader as well. Just to let you know I have braid on all my setups for the surf and circle hooks are the only hooks ZI use except for the teaser lures I put on on a dropper loop about 12" ubove the plug or metal lure.
If the blues are in heavy I switch to an 18" wire leader at the end of the shock leader especially when using plugs. I have not had any problems with bite offs but you have to check your leader after every fish when fishing the surf.
Mboy, mentioned that by using just the head this is true for the most part. In the surf it is catch as catch can. in other words they are less likely to be picky about what they eat. But it is a good start.
I hope this helps.
Happy Catching
Paul
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I tried circle hooks a while back and lost a couple of big fish because the leader broke right at the hook. I blamed it on the short shank being right in the corner and abrading on the rough "lips" of a striper.
For the early season I usually drift worms and use 20#. I use 30# when the bunker/blues and bigger bass arrive.
Maybe I'll bump it up to 50# and give the inline circles a shot.
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I have NEVER had that happen, but i don't use 20lb leader for bass (my braid is heavier then 20lb).
I use at least 30 or 40lb. 50lbs sometimes, but 40 usually seams fine on the higher end for 20-30lb bass.
Half the time, I would use just Ande 40lb clear mono for leader, not even leader material.
Never had problem with chafing leader from bass mouth with bass up to my PB of 38lbs caught on live bunker.
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I have NEVER had that happen, but i don't use 20lb leader for bass (my braid is heavier then 20lb).
Could've been a defective spool of leader material also. But it was a few years ago when circle hooks were pretty new so I gave up on them.
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You have to remember with circle hooks you do not want to drive the hook home on these puppies. The fish will hook themselves. If they swallow the hook it will slide out and cat`h in the lower jaw almost every time. If you jerk it to hard it will probably come right out of the fish's mouth. Plus you have to make sure your knot is tied right.
I have not had a problem with these hooks or leader material being chafed like you explained.
There are many good knots to use I like the Palomar for the simple reason I can tie it in the dark on the beach with cold frozen fingers.
http://www.animatedknots.com/palomar/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
I hope this helps.
Happy Catching
Paul
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Thanks for the input.
I think it's good to look for different ways of doing things and try to improve on the tried and true methods.
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I half to agree with what has been said. I use 40 or 50 floro and about a 9/0 circle hook. Same set up in the Delaware Bay in the Spring with surf clams and Fall with bunker. If the Blues are there unfortunately you just need to deal with it. Or go to plan B and make a move in an attempt to get away from them.
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I alway's use 30lb wire leader. No problem with the blues and the stripers never seem to shy away from it like i've heard. Gives me the best of both worlds.
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I don't really think wire is a problem with stripers either. Especially in the murky waters of Raritan Bay. But I can't help but think maybe it's cutting down on my bites.
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IMHO, wire would be too stiff and not present the bait in a natural manor (ie floating/swaying/tumbling in the current).
I think it would definitely cut down on the number of bites (especially from bass).
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I hate fluro. Tried quite a few brands in numerous #test. To me it seems to "bananna peel" much easier than mono and never seen a single improvement in catching when switching to fluro leaders. 5hrug
Some of my bigger bass have been on heavy mono leader, short 80# lengths and even wire leader.
Used the short wire leaders on livelined bunker and even flat-line bunker fillets from the boat.
Maybe in cleaner waters than in the NY Bight area it would be beneficial(of course for tuna) but for local fishing it's a waste IMHO. slt
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Maybe in cleaner waters than in the NY Bight area it would be beneficial(of course for tuna) but for local fishing it's a waste IMHO. slt
I agree with that for the most part but I still feel more confident with floro.
My personal best striper when fishing from my boat (26#) was caught with a wire leader.
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I hate fluro. Tried quite a few brands in numerous #test. To me it seems to "bananna peel" much easier than mono and never seen a single improvement in catching when switching to fluro leaders. 5hrug
Some of my bigger bass have been on heavy mono leader, short 80# lengths and even wire leader.
Used the short wire leaders on livelined bunker and even flat-line bunker fillets from the boat.
Maybe in cleaner waters than in the NY Bight area it would be beneficial(of course for tuna) but for local fishing it's a waste IMHO. slt
Can I get an AMEN!!! ;D
Fluro is over rated.
Heavier mono helps too. Too light of a leader, the bait spins more. That's more attractive to a bluefish.
If there's proof somewhere that nobody caught bass until fluro was invented then maybe there's some credit to the story. I think people did very well prior to fluro --- and still do well without it.
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I hate fluro. Tried quite a few brands in numerous #test. To me it seems to "bananna peel" much easier than mono and never seen a single improvement in catching when switching to fluro leaders. 5hrug
Some of my bigger bass have been on heavy mono leader, short 80# lengths and even wire leader.
Used the short wire leaders on livelined bunker and even flat-line bunker fillets from the boat.
Maybe in cleaner waters than in the NY Bight area it would be beneficial(of course for tuna) but for local fishing it's a waste IMHO. slt
Can I get an AMEN!!! ;D
Fluro is over rated.
Heavier mono helps too. Too light of a leader, the bait spins more. That's more attractive to a bluefish.
If there's proof somewhere that nobody caught bass until fluro was invented then maybe there's some credit to the story. I think people did very well prior to fluro --- and still do well without it.
Son give me all the Fluro you don't want ;D
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My pops spent a good deal of time talking to Lou Grazioso at the SWS seminar (who I am looking forward to fishing with end of April w/ my pops and sister). One of the questions he asked about was fluro vs mono leader.
Lou's stance was he basically doesn't have to pay for that type of stuff, hooks, etc due to sponsers I imagine, but he said he would still use fluro even if he did have to pay. His view was that you never know the clarity of the water, especially near the bottom. Could be murky on top, clear on the bottom.
I believe my dad also spoke to Poveromo about it once and George basically said the same thing. It was worth it to him to use the fluro over mono, especially for leader shy type fish.
I will say this, plenty of fish were cuaght in the oceans, bays, rivers etc long before fluoro was ever invented.
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If there's proof somewhere that nobody caught bass until fluro was invented then maybe there's some credit to the story. I think people did very well prior to fluro --- and still do well without it.
People do very well using hand lines wrapped around soda cans too, but you wouldn't do that when something better is available, right??
Someone should do a side by side comparison, fluro vs mono this spring, see what happens.
I'd volunteer, although I'm better at the fishing part than the actual catching part rofla
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It's not as expensive as it was when it first came out so I don't mind paying a couple of bucks more.
Even if it's a total waste, it's a drop in the bucket compared to what I (and probably most people on this board) spend on fishing.
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My pops spent a good deal of time talking to Lou Grazioso at the SWS seminar (who I am looking forward to fishing with end of April w/ my pops and sister). One of the questions he asked about was fluro vs mono leader.
Lou's stance was he basically doesn't have to pay for that type of stuff, hooks, etc due to sponsers I imagine, but he said he would still use fluro even if he did have to pay. His view was that you never know the clarity of the water, especially near the bottom. Could be murky on top, clear on the bottom.
I believe my dad also spoke to Poveromo about it once and George basically said the same thing. It was worth it to him to use the fluro over mono, especially for leader shy type fish.
I will say this, plenty of fish were cuaght in the oceans, bays, rivers etc long before fluoro was ever invented.
Lou Grazioso know's his stuff.
(http://www.stripermania.net/images/gallery/trophy12.jpg)
I use Fluro & will continue to use it.
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[glow=yellow,2,300]i got a 20# mono on my rod. is that good?[/glow]
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Yep. Didn't realize he moved from AH to Keyport on the other side of bridge from me, so I should run into him quite a bit.
Def looking to fishing with him in April.
My pops talks to him quite a bit at all the fishing shows, etc, so it will be nice.
Clamming with one of the Raritan Bay/ Sandy Hook's finest bass fisheman.
Can't beat that.
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Go for it mboy. Just make sure to fill us in on any hints, tips, or tricks you come away with.
Paul
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My pops spent a good deal of time talking to Lou Grazioso at the SWS seminar (who I am looking forward to fishing with end of April w/ my pops and sister). One of the questions he asked about was fluro vs mono leader.
Lou's stance was he basically doesn't have to pay for that type of stuff, hooks, etc due to sponsers I imagine, but he said he would still use fluro even if he did have to pay. His view was that you never know the clarity of the water, especially near the bottom. Could be murky on top, clear on the bottom.
I believe my dad also spoke to Poveromo about it once and George basically said the same thing. It was worth it to him to use the fluro over mono, especially for leader shy type fish.
I will say this, plenty of fish were cuaght in the oceans, bays, rivers etc long before fluoro was ever invented.
Lou Grazioso know's his stuff.
(http://www.stripermania.net/images/gallery/trophy12.jpg)
I use Fluro & will continue to use it.
When did Lou get a new boat? ???
There are VERY productive Capt's that us Quatro as leader as well.
If you're comfortable and have faith in something keep using it. One way is no more right than another.
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Mboy, maybe you can get Capt. Lou to join us here...
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I will mention it when I fish with him for sure.
My pops charted the boat for just the 3 of us, so I imagine I will have plenty of time to I disagree with him :)
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Mboy, maybe you can get Capt. Lou to join us here...
Tony from time to time Lou uses Chucksters True World ;)
I was just on the Phone with Lou.
Lou likes to lurk but when it comes to posting he is shy.
I will forward Lou the link and if I twist his arm hard enough maybe just maybe he will chime in.
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Tell him we are all super friendly here if not we have NJ HUNTER take out the sour apples. rofla
Paul
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Certainly looking forward to fishing with him in April.
Gonna be doin' the clamberto!
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Lou's stance was he basically doesn't have to pay for that type of stuff, hooks, etc due to sponsers I imagine, but he said he would still use fluro even if he did have to pay. His view was that you never know the clarity of the water, especially near the bottom. Could be murky on top, clear on the bottom.
My feeling is that if you're willing to go the extra mile or in this case $$ to buy the best rod, reel, hook etc. you can afford why are you skimping on leader material.
On a side note, best day I ever had of bass fishing was with Capt. Lou in May of 2006. 4 of us live lined over 160 bass with nothing under #18. We all lost count when we each had 40 bass. It was the definition of drop & reel fishing. And the best part was that there was absolutely no other boat within a mile of us. In fact my avatar picture is from one of the bass that day.
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Sweet...
I am looking forward to a good year in the suds as well.
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Lou's stance was he basically doesn't have to pay for that type of stuff, hooks, etc due to sponsers I imagine, but he said he would still use fluro even if he did have to pay. His view was that you never know the clarity of the water, especially near the bottom. Could be murky on top, clear on the bottom.
My feeling is that if you're willing to go the extra mile or in this case $$ to buy the best rod, reel, hook etc. you can afford why are you skimping on leader material.
On a side note, best day I ever had of bass fishing was with Capt. Lou in May of 2006. 4 of us live lined over 160 bass with nothing under #18. We all lost count when we each had 40 bass. It was the definition of drop & reel fishing. And the best part was that there was absolutely no other boat within a mile of us. In fact my avatar picture is from one of the bass that day.
I wonder who else was on that trip?
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Lou's stance was he basically doesn't have to pay for that type of stuff, hooks, etc due to sponsers I imagine, but he said he would still use fluro even if he did have to pay. His view was that you never know the clarity of the water, especially near the bottom. Could be murky on top, clear on the bottom.
My feeling is that if you're willing to go the extra mile or in this case $$ to buy the best rod, reel, hook etc. you can afford why are you skimping on leader material.
On a side note, best day I ever had of bass fishing was with Capt. Lou in May of 2006. 4 of us live lined over 160 bass with nothing under #18. We all lost count when we each had 40 bass. It was the definition of drop & reel fishing. And the best part was that there was absolutely no other boat within a mile of us. In fact my avatar picture is from one of the bass that day.
I wonder who else was on that trip?
Tony Trigg and a charter captain and his mate from Cape May whose names escape me now.
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Lou's stance was he basically doesn't have to pay for that type of stuff, hooks, etc due to sponsers I imagine, but he said he would still use fluro even if he did have to pay. His view was that you never know the clarity of the water, especially near the bottom. Could be murky on top, clear on the bottom.
My feeling is that if you're willing to go the extra mile or in this case $$ to buy the best rod, reel, hook etc. you can afford why are you skimping on leader material.
On a side note, best day I ever had of bass fishing was with Capt. Lou in May of 2006. 4 of us live lined over 160 bass with nothing under #18. We all lost count when we each had 40 bass. It was the definition of drop & reel fishing. And the best part was that there was absolutely no other boat within a mile of us. In fact my avatar picture is from one of the bass that day.
I wonder who else was on that trip?
Tony Trigg and a charter captain and his mate from Cape May whose names escape me now.
grtn ;D -- and it was Capt. Skip and his buddy Rick.
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Capt Skip's a good man. Been out with him a couple of times. Def want to do an early season Cape May Trip if anyone's interested.
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Ok, here's my usual shot from left field.. Over the years I've had good success drifting baits for Bonito and Albies (and Blues when they get picky in the summer) using extra long shank Carlisle style hooks.. Unless a blue is hooked real deep, most of the time this keeps their choppers off the leader..While I prefer a short shank for the Tunoids, when there are a lot of yellow-eyed demons around I can still hide the Carlisle in a spearing and get bites.. May be worth a try for Bass when the bite-offs get bad..
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Lou's stance was he basically doesn't have to pay for that type of stuff, hooks, etc due to sponsers I imagine, but he said he would still use fluro even if he did have to pay. His view was that you never know the clarity of the water, especially near the bottom. Could be murky on top, clear on the bottom.
My feeling is that if you're willing to go the extra mile or in this case $$ to buy the best rod, reel, hook etc. you can afford why are you skimping on leader material.
On a side note, best day I ever had of bass fishing was with Capt. Lou in May of 2006. 4 of us live lined over 160 bass with nothing under #18. We all lost count when we each had 40 bass. It was the definition of drop & reel fishing. And the best part was that there was absolutely no other boat within a mile of us. In fact my avatar picture is from one of the bass that day.
I wonder who else was on that trip?
Tony Trigg and a charter captain and his mate from Cape May whose names escape me now.
grtn ;D -- and it was Capt. Skip and his buddy Rick.
Hi Tony grtn
I'm alittle slow today as I'm doing double duty today as my front desk girl is out so I'm doing all the secreterial work + treating patients. After taking a close look at your screen name for this sight I put 2 & 2 together.
That was some trip wasn't it TT^ t^ TT^
Kinda puts a bad light on the trip we did earlier that day with Freddy on the Andrea's Toy. On any other day, Freddy's trip would have been considered outstanding but to go back out later the same day and do what we did is still hard to believe at times.
OK now that we (or should I say I) have totally hijacked this thread.....