The cost of not having a NJ saltwater license

[njdiver]

Check  the NOAA site for the estimated NJ anglers then  multiply the  number by 20 or 40 dollars. The 150,000,000 dollars NJ lost due to not having a saltwater license fund,check for yourself to see if the money was available.

You are once again proposing having NJ be the most expensive saltwater licensing agency on the east coast.

Check the achievements of the saltwater angler group CCA that support a saltwater license. I am sure after reading what they have done for saltwater fishermen and saltwater fish stocks their opinion will at lest get your attention. http://www.joincca.org/Accomplishments.html

There is no CCA chapter here in NJ.

[njdiver]

Again Ken, I will ask. Did the saltwater license that Maryland, Virginia and others have keep the sea bass fishing open to them. The answer, as you know, is NO, IT DID NOT, THE SEA BASS FISHING IS C-L-O-S-E-D FOR THEM ALSO.

“Maryland is of particular interest because in 1985 it became the very first state along the entire eastern seaboard to require licensing of some part of its marine recreational angling public.”

http://www.gsmfc.org/publications/WB-Sport%20Fish/WB%20No.%20004.PDF

The money the state will get from the saltwater fishermen license will first be used to pay for the LEOs that are now being paid by the state. The state will then have the money they used to pay for them at their disposal. More money will be used for office staff with none of that money going toward the fishermen. The politicians are very creative in their use of OUR money. They will find legal (not moral) ways to confiscate any money that should go to our benefit.

NY has already done that.

Laws for the eligibility and use of Wallop/Breaux funds:

Title 50: Wildlife and Fisheries

PART 80—ADMINISTRATIVE REQUIREMENTS, PITTMAN—ROBERTSON WILDLIFE RESTORATION AND DINGELL-JOHNSON SPORT FISH RESTORATION ACTS

Authority:   16 U.S.C. 777–777n; 16 U.S.C. 669–669k; 18 U.S.C. 701.

(Snip)

§ 80.3   Assent legislation.
A State may participate in the benefits of the Act(s) only after it has passed legislation which assents to the provisions of the Acts and has passed laws for the conservation of fish and wildlife including a prohibition against the diversion of license fees paid by hunters and sport fishermen to purposes other than administration of the fish and wildlife agency. Subsequent legislation which amends these state laws shall be subject to review by the Secretary. If the legislation is found contrary to the assent provisions, the State shall become ineligible.

§ 80.4   Diversion of license fees.
Revenues from license fees paid by hunters and fishermen shall not be diverted to purposes other than administration of the State fish and wildlife agency.

(Snip)

 (b) For purposes of this rule, administration of the State fish and wildlife agency include only those functions required to manage the fish and wildlife-oriented resources of the State for which the agency has authority under State law.
(c) A diversion of license fee revenues occurs when any portion of license revenues is used for any purpose other than the administration of the State fish and wildlife agency.
(d) If a diversion of license revenues occurs, the State becomes ineligible to participate under the pertinent Act from the date the diversion is declared by the Director until:
(1) Adequate legislative prohibitions are in place to prevent diversion of license revenue, and

(2) All license revenues or assets acquired with license revenues are restored, or an amount equal to license revenue diverted or current market value of assets diverted (whichever is greater) is returned and properly available for use for the administration of the State fish and wildlife agency.

(Snip)

[54 FR 15209, Apr. 17, 1989, as amended at 73 FR 43128, July 24, 2008]
§ 80.5   Eligible undertakings.
The following are eligible for funding under the Acts:

(Snip)

 (2) Projects having as their purpose the education of hunters and archers in the skills, knowledges, and attitudes necessary to be a responsible hunter or archer.

(b) Dingell-Johnson Sport Fish Restoration Act.
(1) Projects having as their purpose the restoration, conservation, management, and enhancement of sport fish, and the provision for public use and benefits from these resources. Sport fish are limited to aquatic, gill-breathing, vertebrate animals, bearing paired fins, and having material value for sport or recreation.

(2) Additional funds resulting from expansion of the Sport Fish Restoration Program must be added to existing State fishery program funds available from traditional sources and not as a substitute therefor.

[47 FR 22539, May 25, 1982, as amended at 50 FR 21448, May 24, 1985; 73 FR 43128, July 24, 2008]

§ 80.6   Prohibited activities.
The following are not eligible for funding under the Acts, except when necessary for the accomplishment of project purposes as approved by the regional director.

(a) Law enforcement activities conducted by the State to enforce the fish and game regulations.

(b) Public relations activities conducted to promote the State fish and wildlife agency.

[Tacklebox Joe]

Capt. Joe makes a good point. The politicians of this state would reallocate or "borrow" the funds. Use these monies to pay something else off. The fishing community would see a minimal return.

[Kensdock]

Hi Ken !  It is a GREAT bunch of people here who are very passionate and talented.  People who fish for sport and recreation and also those trying to make a living.

Can you answer this question for me.  It will give me a better understanding where you are coming from.  Are you supporting a saltwater license because you believe in the good it will do, or are you supporting a license because we have been backed into a corner and have little to no options left?

Thanks.

 

At this point, We are shortly going to be paying the federal government about 25 million dollars a year. NJ fishermen will see no benefits from the money, as it will be deposited in the US general fund. If NJ implements a saltwater license the money will stay in NJ and be invested in our saltwater resources via a dedicated fund.

If NJ would have  been proactive and had a saltwater license in place this year, in addition to the many benefits of a license, there was a chance that our 2010 flounder season could have been May 1- Nov 1 with a 17" fish, 6 fish bag limit.

[Pfishingruven]

At this point, We are shortly going to be paying the federal government about 25 million dollars a year. NJ fishermen will see no benefits from the money, as it will be deposited in the US general fund. If NJ implements a saltwater license the money will stay in NJ and be invested in our saltwater resources via a dedicated fund.

So you are supporting a NJ State License because either we pay the Feds or or we pay the State.  I can agree with that.  However, if you ask me if I want a saltwater license, YES or NO, my answer is NO!

If NJ would have  been proactive and had a saltwater license in place this year, in addition to the many benefits of a license, there was a chance that our 2010 flounder season could have been May 1- Nov 1 with a 17" fish, 6 fish bag limit.

I think Captain Tony Bogan(Capt TB) will disagree with you on this point...I just hope he doesn't yell too loud !

 

[njdiver]

At this point, We are shortly going to be paying the federal government about 25 million dollars a year. NJ fishermen will see no benefits from the money, as it will be deposited in the US general fund. If NJ implements a saltwater license the money will stay in NJ and be invested in our saltwater resources via a dedicated fund.

There is no way, presently, to estimate how much the NSAR will cost next year.  There are also too many estimates out there as to how many fishermen there are in NJ, let alone how many will purchase a NJ saltwater license, to get other than a large range of potential funds it would bring in.  Your “estimate” of revenue to NJ from a saltwater license would still make us the most expensive State on the Eastern Seaboard.

If NJ would have  been proactive and had a saltwater license in place this year, in addition to the many benefits of a license, there was a chance that our 2010 flounder season could have been May 1- Nov 1 with a 17" fish, 6 fish bag limit.

You have got to divulge the source of that one!

[IrishAyes]

At this point, We are shortly going to be paying the federal government about 25 million dollars a year. NJ fishermen will see no benefits from the money, as it will be deposited in the US general fund. If NJ implements a saltwater license the money will stay in NJ and be invested in our saltwater resources via a dedicated fund.

No need to pay either the feds or the state any where near this amount. The state can put in a REGISTRY for about $2 a person from what has been previously posted by those in the know and not by someone with only an opinion. No valid reason to have a license.

If NJ would have been proactive and had a saltwater license in place this year, in addition to the many benefits of a license, there was a chance that our 2010 flounder season could have been May 1- Nov 1 with a 17" fish, 6 fish bag limit.

Wow, did you get that from Grimm's Fairy Tales? I saw that nowhere at all in any of the things I have read. Is this possibly another one of your assumptions or wishes?

[Kensdock]

The 2 dollar fee your talking about was found to be  impossible by: the NJ marine fisheries council, the director of NJ fish & wildlife, and the New Jersey Senate committee,that decided it was not even worthy of a Senate vote. NJ Governor Christie has publicly stated he will no sigh any unfunded" legislation.

 It always amazes me at what some people will believe, like the local used car guy that will give you free" ticket to Florida if you buy from him.

As far as the flounder season, NOAA is charging NJ flounder fishermen for 1.2 million saltwater anglers.  The US fish and wildlife survey found only 600,000 saltwater anglers.  Apply the reasoning ability of a fifth grader to this information. You will find why there was a chance" of an increase to our flounder season  if we had a NJ saltwater license in place this year.

[IrishAyes]

It always amazes me at what some people will believe, like the local used car guy that will give you free" ticket to Florida if you buy from him.

Then you must be extremely amazed at yourself. You have drunk your kool-aid and that of many others if you truely believe a saltwater license will help you.

[Kenny]

Kinda like having a drivers licence prevents pot holes 

NJ Saltwater fishing licence = Money grab

[Bucktail]

NJ Governor Christie has publicly stated he will no sigh any unfunded" legislation.

Interesting.  Was he talking specifically about the registry or any new legislation?  When did he say this?  Was it in his recent budget speech?  Where can I find this statement?

[Tacklebox Joe]

it was about any legislation . Christie probably didn't even know of any fishery issues in this state until he took office. His main agenda right now is to "screw" the teacher's union and any other gov't employee.

[Capt. Birch]

The 2 dollar fee your talking about was found to be  impossible by: the NJ marine fisheries council, the director of NJ fish & wildlife, and the New Jersey Senate committee,that decided it was not even worthy of a Senate vote.

what is the cost for a bonus striper tag?what does it cost to issue . I think a few of the people that were part of the converstions with the DEP, fish and game and others may have some things to add. Some pretty upseting things were responded to a proposed self funded registry with no tax payer liabiliy

[Bucktail]

His main agenda right now is to "screw" the teacher's union and any other gov't employee.

I agree with you there TB.  He doesn't make any pretenses to be a friend of any union worker.

[Kensdock]

There is two estimates of NJ saltwater anglers, NOAA's about 1.2 million and the resent US fish and wildlife survey of hunters and fishermen that estimated  about 600,000 NJ saltwater anglers .NOAA uses 1.2 million when setting our flounder season options.
.Here is were I obtained my number of NJ saltwater anglers http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st5/publication/econ/MA_NJTables , I was made aware of US  F&W survey by CaptTB and Hutchjr of the RFA during a debate over a NJ saltwater license. Actually the 1.2 is a little higher and the 600,000 is a little lower. It is easy to reason, that with an accurate count of NJ saltwater anglers our flounder season could be greatly increased.
 I would have paid 25 or 30 dollars for a saltwater license this year for the chance of greatly extending our flounder season, let alone the other benefits of a NJ saltwater license.

[Capt. Mike]

How a about this for once!
Give us the so called benefits of a salt water licenses, upfront!

We will function under the same paper work or accounting that the powers to be feel will benefit us, for a period of 3 years.

If for once we are not being screwed, we will pay you 3 years worth of fishing license fees going into the 4th year.

So how about we pay after services are rendered not before. I'd rather see it as a benefit not another mandatory tax.

If you are not interested in the terms, stick your license straight in your arss!

[Kensdock]

Not a bad idea,not sure if it would work. At lest have something written into the law, that if the license money is used for anything else the license law would become null and void.

[Kensdock]

I would like to add one more cost to the list. I need a little help, how much do you think two months of closed flounder season cost the party boat, charter boat or the industry in general?


Hutchjr RFA quote---
My point has nothing to do with minimizing a saltwater license mind you – I’m simply trying to point out a huge discrepancy in numbers here. There are statisticians who have done other work that’s more comprehensive than this, which has uncovered a similar pattern. MRFSS estimates continue to come significantly higher than both US Fish and Wildlife Service estimates and those of saltwater fishing license sales in given states.

The fact of the matter is that MRFSS has been overestimating the number of saltwater anglers and associated trips, which in turn has grossly inflated our annual harvest and thereby decimated our annual harvest limits. --end quote---

[Capt. Mike]

What is your point here? Do you have a clear direction? This is not how you rally the troops! This is New Jersey!

[CaptTB]

I would like to add one more cost to the list. I need a little help, how much do you think two months of closed flounder season cost the party boat, charter boat or the industry in general?

First, please do NOT pretend you give two shits about partyboats. Shall I get the numerous quotes from you on other boards where you continually BASH the "partyboat lobby" as you put it? Where you ramble on about how the "Partyboat lobby will no longer get its way?"

Stop bullshitting, you are not very good at it and you are as disingenuous a person as I have ever seen on the internet.
(by the way, I would not waste my time getting quotes from you from other sites, they are there for all to see unless you go back and edit them

Hutchjr RFA quote---
My point has nothing to do with minimizing a saltwater license mind you – I’m simply trying to point out a huge discrepancy in numbers here. There are statisticians who have done other work that’s more comprehensive than this, which has uncovered a similar pattern. MRFSS estimates continue to come significantly higher than both US Fish and Wildlife Service estimates and those of saltwater fishing license sales in given states.

The fact of the matter is that MRFSS has been overestimating the number of saltwater anglers and associated trips, which in turn has grossly inflated our annual harvest and thereby decimated our annual harvest limits. --end quote---

And Hutch is dead on. Difference is, we want the government to actually do their job properly instead of doing a Pee poor job and wasting millions of tax payer dollars and then hiding behind the law that makes their ONLY science the "best available" by default.

Problem is you would rather PAY EVEN MORE MONEY instead of MKAING THEM DO THEIR JOB RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!