2012 NJ Summer Flounder / Fluke Regulations

[bugmannj]

Just my 2 cents, but why wouldn't a slot work like they did with the red fish in the south? Say a slot of 18" to 22" any below or over goes back and you'd have your breeders and a stock for the following year.

[BigAl13]

Because Fluke reach sexual maturity at age 2 which is usually 15-20" and the usually stop reproducing at 6 years which is normally 24-29".

[IrishAyes]

In the original list of options there was an option for a slot fish. From my understanding, this option was removed from the final list because the Conservation Officers deemed it too hard to enforce. They said that if they boarded a party boat they would have to go thru the entire set of 'racks' that the mates must save from when they fillet fish at sea. They would then have to determine the number of people on the boat and from that determine the number of slot 'racks' that would be permissible, who the rack belonged to, ets. They thought that this would cause mass confusion, rebellion, whatever.  

Here is my simple solution:

The option given was one fish at 17" and three fish at 18". If that had been brought forward this is what could have been done for easy enforcement.

First off, as is is now, if the mates fillet your fish at sea they must keep all 'racks' for proof of size. Simply add to the regulation that if the mate fillets a slot fish (only one is allowed per patron) the 'rack'  for the slot fish shall be given back to the angler and that rack must be retained by the angler until he disembarks from the vessel. If a CO were to board the party boat he could conduct business as usual checking the individual anglers, racks, etc.

With very little effort they could have thought this out just as I have. No confusion or anything else.

Can people cheat and toss a rack away? Of course, but the majority won't. I don't see a reason for them to do so, but I guess some can have a reason. If someone is out to circumvent the law they will do so no matter what the regulations are.

Just my simple answer to what they deemed an unenforceable situation.

[The Broken One]

I'd like to thank Broken for his insight.  The government gave you 8 fish at 18 inches from Derby Day to October.  They gave it to you.  The Big Time Party Boats agreed and wanted Option Two.  Voyager, Jamaica to name a couple.  The RFA-NJ representatives wanted Option Five.  If you don't believe me, look at the other NJ site and read about it.  A person who attended the meeting gave some votes from those in attendance. 

So, if you are angry about Option Five and are a RFA-NJ member, you have something to think about. 

When SSFFF started a lot of us sent money, spent time, wrote letters and all kinds of stuff to get a better season and to keep our original eight fish bag.  We got it back.  Now, some folks gave it all away when once again, government was willing to give us 8 fish at 18 inches and a season from early May to October.  Like we used to have BTW before government got involved.  But some folks at the meeting, gave it all away.

I hope I am wrong, Captain Carl.  But if we look like NY in 2013........  I won't say I told you so. I just hope government says to you Captain Carl, "Hey, you were willing to take 5 at 17.5, you will agree with 2 at 20.5". 

Another thing.  I know 18 inches is a big fish. So is 17.5. But if a minor leaguer like me can catch them, I am sure some of you and your customers can.  Broken and his crew are very good. I read his posts. I fish on a party boat and fish with the best fluke fishermen in the state.  I learned from them.  Teach your children well........

The bottom line is, you do not give up three fish for a half an inch, when the government is giving it you and you turn it down.

Well said.... again its not about 5 or 8 fish today... its about bending over next season as the potential is there for drastic cuts in the keeper limit amount... no one else see's this 

[IrishAyes]

That is the very reason I wanted option 2. Last year many people said that if the size limit was 17 1/2" they would have limited out on most trips. If that were the case or will be the case this year, how much are we going to go over our quota this year? Hopefully we won't.

The deed is done for this year. We can only hope for the best. 

[Capt. Joe G]

Its simple.. you cant keep giving numbers back!! Just remember that commercial quota is 16"s... and should include their deadloss....

The other thing I dont like pick a number for a 5 yrs plan.. Every year the regs get changed.. its BS

[IrishAyes]

Joey, I hate to break it to you but the commercial quota is 14". 

[Capt. Joe G]

Better yet...between the fisheries management n Obama administrator were F'd

[fathergll]

That is the very reason I wanted option 2. Last year many people said that if the size limit was 17 1/2" they would have limited out on most trips. If that were the case or will be the case this year, how much are we going to go over our quota this year? Hopefully we won't.

The deed is done for this year. We can only hope for the best. 

If thats the case why is everyone keep crying that we are giving fish back when everyone is afraid more fish will be kept?   

[BigAl13]

Because it will be relentless, If so many people had a hard time catching keepers last year the 8 bag only matter for those who were lucky enough to get them. This year at 17.5 Alot more people will be able to limit out. So if last year Average was 1.5 per man this year it should be around 3.5 if all of those just shorts last year where actually just short. thats almost triple last years catch and last year they said we over caught which means next year we could be in trouble. The argument is you dont give 3 fish away for a half inch, not because everyone wants to be able too keep 8 fish (which is nice) but because it took so much to get to that limit and it will take forever to get it back.

[IKAT]

I give up

[fathergll]

This year at 17.5 Alot more people will be able to limit out. So if last year Average was 1.5 per man this year it should be around 3.5 if all of those just shorts last year where actually just short.

Yes but thats a pretty simplified calculation. I'd say the reality is somewhere in the middle. Remember how everyone kept saying "now that its 17.5" people will be complaining they are catching tons of 17" fish" I highly doubt we are going to see a lot of limiting out because of this. More fish will be taken no doubt

Again its a lot of conflicting talk from all people. One person says "why give up 3 fish for a lousy .5" that half inch isn't that much", the other says "oh no now we're going to over-fish since everyone is going to limit out". Truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

The argument is you dont give 3 fish away for a half inch, not because everyone wants to be able too keep 8 fish (which is nice) but because it took so much to get to that limit and it will take forever to get it back.

The same can be said for why you don't give away size. People said we wouldn't never get back under 18" and here we are. The size limit is smaller than last year and the season slightly longer. Pretty good progress i'd say.

[The dropoff]

Because it will be relentless, If so many people had a hard time catching keepers last year the 8 bag only matter for those who were lucky enough to get them. This year at 17.5 Alot more people will be able to limit out. So if last year Average was 1.5 per man this year it should be around 3.5 if all of those just shorts last year where actually just short. thats almost triple last years catch and last year they said we over caught which means next year we could be in trouble. The argument is you dont give 3 fish away for a half inch, not because everyone wants to be able too keep 8 fish (which is nice) but because it took so much to get to that limit and it will take forever to get it back.

The average last year is 1.7 and dropping the size the average goes to 2.3 or 2.4.   Just to let you know. 

[BigAl13]

I give up as well, If it was 22" Im gonna catch keepers
So know that it is 5 at 17.5 just makes it much much easier. good luck this year.

[fathergll]

I give up as well, If it was 22" Im gonna catch keepers
So know that it is 5 at 17.5 just makes it much much easier. good luck this year.

Yes good luck to all. Remember this isn't a doomsday scenario. Look at the positives...Size limit is down .5" and we get some extra days. You can still take home 10 fillets which is plenty. NJ historically has done a decent job of matching its regulations to the quota  so lets see how this plays out.

[fathergll]

Because it will be relentless, If so many people had a hard time catching keepers last year the 8 bag only matter for those who were lucky enough to get them. This year at 17.5 Alot more people will be able to limit out. So if last year Average was 1.5 per man this year it should be around 3.5 if all of those just shorts last year where actually just short. thats almost triple last years catch and last year they said we over caught which means next year we could be in trouble. The argument is you dont give 3 fish away for a half inch, not because everyone wants to be able too keep 8 fish (which is nice) but because it took so much to get to that limit and it will take forever to get it back.

The average last year is 1.7 and dropping the size the average goes to 2.3 or 2.4.   Just to let you know. 

Yeah, thats sounds more logical than over 3 per trip. They already took that into account for the options.

If you vote option 5 for the longer season that takes a hit into the quota as a risk as well. I read that October fluke dates carry double the weight in how the National Marine Fisheries Service calculates catch data, so each fish caught that month would count as two. 

[The dropoff]

Because it will be relentless, If so many people had a hard time catching keepers last year the 8 bag only matter for those who were lucky enough to get them. This year at 17.5 Alot more people will be able to limit out. So if last year Average was 1.5 per man this year it should be around 3.5 if all of those just shorts last year where actually just short. thats almost triple last years catch and last year they said we over caught which means next year we could be in trouble. The argument is you dont give 3 fish away for a half inch, not because everyone wants to be able too keep 8 fish (which is nice) but because it took so much to get to that limit and it will take forever to get it back.

The average last year is 1.7 and dropping the size the average goes to 2.3 or 2.4.   Just to let you know. 

Yeah, thats sounds more logical than over 3 per trip. They already took that into account for the options.

If you vote option 5 for the longer season that takes a hit into the quota as a risk as well. I read that October fluke dates carry double the weight in how the National Marine Fisheries Service calculates catch data, so each fish caught that month would count as two. 

You are correct Oct counts as double

[IrishAyes]

What we REALLY need is a better way to manage the managers. 

[Fisherman Fran]

My brother and I caught about 800 flounder last year, three keepers. I would'nt mind putting a few more on the table this year. We had many days where we caught over twenty fluke,with most being over sixteen inches. We'll see how it goes this year and evaluate and reflect in the fall. Good fishing everyone.

[Scott G.]

   FISHERMAN FRAN