NJ Saltwater Fisherman Forums
NJ Saltwater Fisherman => Fisheries Management => Topic started by: Kensdock on February 24, 2010, 05:58:09 PM
-
THE COST OF NOT HAVING A
SALT WATER FISHING LICENSE
TO THE PEOPLE OF NEW JERSEY AND THE SALT WATER FISHERMEN OF NEW JERSEY
150 Million in federal stimulus money
7 Salt water hatcheries
3,129 immediate construction jobs benefiting local economies near hatchery sites.
169 permanent green jobs in the form of biologists and other hatchery personnel.
Millions of dollars of New Jersey’s fair share of the Federal excise tax return.
40 million dollars annually in license fees to enhance New Jersey salt water fishing
Millions in lost tourist dollars
Millions of lost recreational fishing hours.
The ability to protect against poaching of our salt water fish.
The continued bankruptcy of bait shops,charter fishing operations,party boats and other related businesses
The ability of New Jersey to responsibly manage the States marine resources.
New Jersey fishermen will lose thier fair share of flounder, sea bass, tug and other fish due to the inability to submit the proper data to the federal government.
Negative impact to our New Jersey shore culture
Reduced value of New Jersey waterfront property
The ability of New Jersey to proactively rebuild the States depleted Weakfish population.
Reduced opportunities for future generations of New Jersey salt water anglers!
References’:
Source: Brett Boston of the Wildlife Foundation of Florida
Excerpt:
A proposal to secure almost $150 million in funding for this effort has been submitted to Congress, as well as to Gov. Charlie Crist’s office.
The money requested would come from Obama’s stimulus package through the state Legislature.
Excerpts from Cape May County Herald article:
“New Jerseyians are not only losing a revenue source, we are losing fish.”
“When our representatives go to meetings to set regulations for species catch allocations, we are up against states that have larger and more secure funding sources and therefore better research data to plead their case. Once we have lost allocated pounds of a particular species, it will be extremely difficult to get it back up again.”
Quote: Dave Chanda NJ F&W
Competition amongst Atlantic Coast states for shares of coast-wide fisheries resources is increasing at the same time. The winners are often the states with the best scientific data and competing states are spending two to seven times more per angler than New Jersey to collect fisheries data. The consequence of not being able to keep pace was evident in recent tautog harvest restrictions placed on New Jersey anglers because our data was not sufficient to argue against the restrictions. The same could soon be true for winter flounder. Competition for marine resources will continue to increase in the future as will research and monitoring requirements to responsibly manage the state’s marine resources and keep recreational fisheries open to New Jersey anglers. -end quote
. http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st5/publication/econ/MA_NJTables
TITLE 50–WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES
CHAPTER I–UNITED STATES FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR (CONTINUED)
PART 80_ADMINISTRATIVE REQUIREMENTS, FEDERAL AID IN FISH AND FEDERAL AID IN WILDLIFE RESTORATION ACTS
(Snip)
-
**** **** **** poll resulted in 68% supporting a NJ saltwater license.
Kensdock poll resulted in 92% supporting a NJ saltwater license
New Jersey Marine fisheries council supported a NJ saltwater license with a 7-2 vote
Cape May co. Charter and party boat ass. voiced their support at the NJ council meeting
NJ federation of sportsmen's clubs {100,000 members} support a NJ saltwater license
CCA the largest angler ass. {100,000} members on the east coast support a saltwater license
Time has come for the NJ Senate to recognize the majority! I believe NJ Governor Christie will sign a dedicated saltwater license fund bill.
-
Stop trying to push this "I disagree" on every fishing site on the web. Your rhetoric is getting as old as your agendas.
A fisherman approving a saltwater license willingly is like me saying my property taxes are too low, please charge me more.
Ken, GTFOH.
-
:headscra: :headscra: :headscra: Hmmmmmmmm, Saltwater Fishing License? :headscra: :headscra: :headscra:
Do I want one? Will it do any good?
One prime example of what a license will do for you: Delaware, Maryland, Virginia. Proud owners of saltwater fishing license. Sea Bass C-L-O-S-E-D along with all the other states north of Carolina. Little good their license did them. nosmly nosmly
-
whs _:" nosmly
-
5hrug
I am not familiar with Kensdock? Who, what where, when, why?? An introduction would help??
:headscra:
-
THE COST OF NOT HAVING A
SALT WATER FISHING LICENSE
TO THE PEOPLE OF NEW JERSEY AND THE SALT WATER FISHERMEN OF NEW JERSEY
150 Million in federal stimulus money
7 Salt water hatcheries
3,129 immediate construction jobs benefiting local economies near hatchery sites.
169 permanent green jobs in the form of biologists and other hatchery personnel.
Millions of dollars of New Jersey’s fair share of the Federal excise tax return.
40 million dollars annually in license fees to enhance New Jersey salt water fishing
Millions in lost tourist dollars
Where are you getting these figures from...hopefully not the same way NOAA counts their fish
Millions of lost recreational fishing hours.
How, does a license change this?
The ability to protect against poaching of our salt water fish.
We have State Conservation Officers assigned to a Marine Bureau, as well as State Police. Where have their salaries been coming from to date? A license would not and should not change law enforcement efforts nts!
The continued bankruptcy of bait shops,charter fishing operations,party boats and other related businesses.
You honestly think having to buy a license will change this?
The ability of New Jersey to responsibly manage the States marine resources.
This should not be dependent on a saltwater license. There is already a pre-existing agency responsible for this who is not doing their job. If a saltwater license makes this all better...answer me this: What about the Chesapeake?
New Jersey fishermen will lose thier fair share of flounder, sea bass, tug and other fish due to the inability to submit the proper data to the federal government.
Where's Captain TB when we need him ;D?
Negative impact to our New Jersey shore culture
I ask again, how does a license affect or change this?
Reduced value of New Jersey waterfront property
I thought fisherman affected this negatively already. Heck, we can't access half of it anymore, anyway!
The ability of New Jersey to proactively rebuild the States depleted Weakfish population.
This is not dependent on a license at all. This is mismanagement on the part of the Department ALREADY responsible for this. Again, I refer back to the Chesapeake Bay, which is in a State with a saltwater license and yet has managed their species properly.
Reduced opportunities for future generations of New Jersey salt water anglers!
This I agree with...less and less people will fish, just like with freshwater because they simply can't afford to pay for the license to go fishing occassionally...so they just give up and find a new hobby.
NJ License Sales Statistics (http://njfishandwildlife.net/license_sales.htm)
I'm not quite sure where all of these statistics and numbers are coming from and I don't agree with all of your points, either...well most of your points. I am not specifically against a saltwater license, especially since one way or another it is going to happen. So either our money goes to the State or the Feds...I'd rather it stay here. ...And as a freshwater fisherman, buying a license is a yearly occurrence already!
You are trying to propaganda a BIG change and by compiling opinions will not help further the cause!
:-\
-
**** **** **** poll resulted in 68% supporting a NJ saltwater license.
Welcome Kensdock! t^ What is **** **** **** poll? 5hrug
I am not in favor of a saltwater license, but I know others that are. There are anglers in Florida that believe the saltwater license was beneficial to them. So your position is not without it's supporters.
I would, however, like to see where you're getting your data from.
$150M in stimulus money? :headscra:
7 Saltwater hatcheries? :headscra:
3,129 immediate construction jobs? :headscra:
Etc., etc., etc. :headscra:
-
nts He must be working for Obama!
-
**** **** **** poll resulted in 68% supporting a NJ saltwater license.
Welcome Kensdock! t^ What is **** **** **** poll? 5hrug
I am not in favor of a saltwater license, but I know others that are. There are anglers in Florida that believe the saltwater license was beneficial to them. So your position is not without it's supporters.
I would, however, like to see where you're getting your data from.
$150M in stimulus money? :headscra:
7 Saltwater hatcheries? :headscra:
3,129 immediate construction jobs? :headscra:
Etc., etc., etc. :headscra:
Those are censored words Bob....
-
Bob, the ***** ***** ***** is our censor kicking in because another 'site' was listed. TT^
As far as his poll. If he posted the poll he took it would show some very poor options. Of the poor options his 'yeah, i want a license' was the best answer. As I said, the options were horrible. The "what if's" are off the wall for anything that would be a quality, meaningful poll.
-
OK. I'm not sure if this guy is serious or just having some fun with us. :/
Either way, I'm just not seeing his argument. nosmly
-
This guy has an awful lot to say all of a sudden??? :headscra:
WTF ???
-
Ah.. the Site name Censor ;D
-
whs Sounds like an Oboma poll,
Gimper
-
What's an Oboma poll? :headscra:
-
5hrug 5hrug
-
It is this website:
Kens Dock (http://kensdock.com/)
:headscra: 5hrug
-
As far as his poll. If he posted the poll he took it would show some very poor options. Of the poor options his 'yeah, i want a license' was the best answer. As I said, the options were horrible. The "what if's" are off the wall for anything that would be a quality, meaningful poll.
That is basically what it was...if you were backed into a corner, would you want a saltwater license with funds going to NJ or the Feds? There isn't an option for...I AM AGAINST A SALTWATER FISHING LICENSE nts.
:-X
-
whs
-
Interesting...
-
As far as his poll. If he posted the poll he took it would show some very poor options. Of the poor options his 'yeah, i want a license' was the best answer. As I said, the options were horrible. The "what if's" are off the wall for anything that would be a quality, meaningful poll.
That is basically what it was...if you were backed into a corner, would you want a saltwater license with funds going to NJ or the Feds? There isn't an option for...I AM AGAINST A SALTWATER FISHING LICENSE nts.
:-X
There was also, at the time of his poll, a bill IN THE SENATE COMMITTEE to have a FREE Salt Water Registry. It would have met ALL the Federal requirements, meaning NOT ONE RED CENT would have to be paid to the feds for ANYTHING.
Funny, that option wasn't on his poll. 5hrug
-
Nice to see this guy finally found this great site. ;D I would imagine when CaptTB gets bored or a little free time he will post all the info about NJ only needing to create a free regrisry(really about 2bucks) to comply with MSA. IMHO Most fisherman would be okay with paying a larger fee if the money would benefit only the saltwater sector. My understanding is money from sales for a saltwater licence would be dedicated to the saltwater resource and NOT the general fund.So this is really no concern. My concern is that due to budget deficits that any revenue generated from licence sales will result in funding cuts in that same amount....for a net gain of 0 dollars and 0 improved benefits to saltwater anglers.Pay more for the same benifits does not sound like a good deal.
-
You can also consider this...Once upon a time the Great State of New Jersey paid into the pension plan. The the Honorable Governor Christine Whitmann decided that there was plenty of money in the dedicated fund and felt the the State of New Jersey would be an appreciative recipient of some of the pension money. She raided our fund for millions of dollars and then told the municipalities that they did not have to direct money into the fund for a long, long time.
We all know the problems of the pensions system now.
That tells me that any money collected in license fees may be dedicated to saltwater used in the beginning but what will happen down the road?
-
Quote
Millions of lost recreational fishing hours.
How, does a license change this?
By investing in our fish stocks via hatcheries, funding fish @ game to enable them to manage our saltwater resources reasonably.
We have State Conservation Officers assigned to a Marine Bureau, as well as State Police. Where have their salaries been coming from to date? A license would not and should not change law enforcement efforts !
Yes, we have nine"conservation officers assigned to the marine division. We have 9,000,000 residents, 1.2 million recreational fishermen and the forth largest commercial port in the nation. What we have in NJ at this point is a free for all for poachers. A NJ saltwater license most certainly would change this.
Quote
The continued bankruptcy of bait shops,charter fishing operations,party boats and other related businesses.
You honestly think having to buy a license will change this?
Yes absolutely! Take a look at what can be accomplished through investing in our marine resources.
Please check my references you will find the answers to the rest of your questions.
We need change. We have a minority with interest that differ from those of true sportfishermen. They have had the only voice at the table long enough !This minority would not support a moratorium on weakfish, even though the majority of saltwater anglers were pleading for one. The scientist at the ASMFC stated that a moratorium was the only responsibly option, yet the *** chose the interest of a few and would not support a moratorium. We have a group pushing a free registration bill { Tax payer funded} that even the sponsor knows it will never become law. Governor Christie has stated he will not sign any unfunded legislation.
Do yourself a favor join the push for change! Join in helping improve saltwater fishing in NJ, Help push the NJ license Bill !!
(http://www.joincca.org/Accomplishments.html)
-
Interesting, and a bit odd. :headscra:
-
Very ODD nts
-
Quote
Millions of lost recreational fishing hours.
How, does a license change this?
By investing in our fish stocks via hatcheries, funding fish @ game to enable them to manage our saltwater resources reasonably.
We have State Conservation Officers assigned to a Marine Bureau, as well as State Police. Where have their salaries been coming from to date? A license would not and should not change law enforcement efforts !
Yes, we have nine"conservation officers assigned to the marine division. We have 9,000,000 residents, 1.2 million recreational fishermen and the forth largest commercial port in the nation. What we have in NJ at this point is a free for all for poachers. A NJ saltwater license most certainly would change this.
Quote
The continued bankruptcy of bait shops,charter fishing operations,party boats and other related businesses.
You honestly think having to buy a license will change this?
Yes absolutely! Take a look at what can be accomplished through investing in our marine resources.
Please check my references you will find the answers to the rest of your questions.
We need change. We have a minority with interest that differ from those of true sportfishermen. They have had the only voice at the table long enough !This minority would not support a moratorium on weakfish, even though the majority of saltwater anglers were pleading for one. The scientist at the ASMFC stated that a moratorium was the only responsibly option, yet the *** chose the interest of a few and would not support a moratorium. We have a group pushing a free registration bill { Tax payer funded} that even the sponsor knows it will never become law. Governor Christie has stated he will not sign any unfunded legislation.
Do yourself a favor join the push for change! Join in helping improve saltwater fishing in NJ, Help push the NJ license Bill !!
(http://www.joincca.org/Accomplishments.html)
Hey Kensdock, I am not necessarily against you. However, when you present an opinion and back it with propaganda and open ended opinions with no facts, I can't help but question the validity of what you are writing. It is like a politician promising you the world so you will vote for them. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but to title a post "The Cost of Not Having a NJ Saltwater License," makes this a little bit more than an opinion.
Not to mention, when I go to the website where you have a "Poll" and then tell me that the "poll" was overwhelmingly in support of a license, but the questions are:
NJ salt water license with a law dedicating the funds to enhance nj fishing 92% (61 votes)
Set up the mandated registry with the funds going to the us general fund 8% (5 votes)
Number one, only 66 people voted...that is far from adequate numbers to suggest that the majority of NJ Recreational Fishermen/women want a saltwater license. Secondly, you only asked if the people wanted the money to go to NJ or the Feds. How about asking Yes or No for a license?
If you could show me, in writing, that the State of NJ has already planned and passed law to use the license fees directly towards all of these points you make, then I might actually buy it for now. Like was said previously, who says it will stay that way? Where does it say that the money will fund more law enforcement officers in the Marine Division?
Like I said, I am not against you or trying to be a jerk. You have presented a valid platform, however, you haven't won me or many others over with your persuasion. If you want to make your platform work, you need to present cold, hard facts and just the facts, to get the support. Otherwise, people just simply view it as propaganda. You need to be able to fire back like Capt Tony Bogan does: his facts and knowledge will silence ANYONE!!
Good luck and please prove me wrong!
TT^
-
The significance of the poll on Kensdock can only be realized when taken in addition to other factors. Like the poll taken on a popular site with 24,000 members after a long debate I had with Hutchjr on the license issue.. The saltwater license issue won approval on that site 68%.
I will be back later
-
Unfortunately, the kind of poll you've posted means nothing and is statistically irrelevant. Anytime you invite people to respond to a poll it automatically skews the results.
Sorry, but you need to do better than that. ;)
-
I have to agree with Bucktail, for a poll to hold any weight, the people have to want to take it and not be asked/invited to.
-
Do yourself a favor join the push for change! Join in helping improve saltwater fishing in NJ, Help push the NJ license Bill !!
Show me the bill!
-
I think Kensdock figures it is something that is inevitable! Which is a fact. Either we pay NOAA a Registry Fee in 2011 or we pay a NJ State Saltwater License and keep the money here in the State. The Bill for a Free Registry in NJ failed miserably in State Legislature.
The big problem, lies in the fact, that the NJ Fisheries Council, needs to get moving on this if NJ is going to do this for 2011. The other problem is, we already see almost no money from fees already paid. So, to get the monies appropriated where they should be, is the biggest fight. I think this is where Kensdock and supporters are headed...to get on board early and push the State for the Saltwater License and fees to go back into saltwater fisheries. However, to this point, what the monies could help are only "what if's" or maybe's"...nothing has even been drafted, yet set in stone.
At some point, we all are going to have to consider this...IMO the days of free saltwater fishing are over and we lost that fight with NOAA. So plan B may really have to be an option soon.
I am interested to hear from guys like Capt TB, dropoff, hutchjr, njdiver, etc...and see what their opinion on this is? Is this a fight we should continue to keep saltwater fishing free or do we need to concede and get on the next best train?
TT^
-
There is a major difference between picking between the lesser of two evils and outright supporting a cause.
His title "the cost of not having a nj saltwater license" shows that Kensdock outright favors a license. That is his opinion and he is entitled to it.
However, all of the items in his arguement for having a license are bogus. I saw nothing to support his assumptions as to what would happen without having a license.
A seperate post (joke) I put up about never assuming holds true here. Don't assume any thing it makes an ASS out of U and ME.
-
whs
I agree and this was what I was questioning.
5hrug
-
Please let me back up for a second, Great site here! It is nice to find a group of fishermen that care about the issues facing NJ fisherman. For those of you who do not know me, my name is Ken, I am pushing for a few changes that I am sure will make New Jersey a much better place to saltwater fish. A NJ saltwater license is one of them. I hope that everyone will take the time to check the list of the cost of not having a NJ saltwater license. Check the NOAA site for the estimated NJ anglers then multiply the number by 20 or 40 dollars. The 150,000,000 dollars NJ lost due to not having a saltwater license fund,check for yourself to see if the money was available. Check the achievements of the saltwater angler group CCA that support a saltwater license. I am sure after reading what they have done for saltwater fishermen and saltwater fish stocks their opinion will at lest get your attention. http://www.joincca.org/Accomplishments.html
-
Again Ken, I will ask. Did the saltwater license that Maryland, Virginia and others have keep the sea bass fishing open to them. The answer, as you know, is NO, IT DID NOT, THE SEA BASS FISHING IS C-L-O-S-E-D FOR THEM ALSO.
The money the state will get from the saltwater fishermen license will first be used to pay for the LEOs that are now being paid by the state. The state will then have the money they used to pay for them at their disposal. More money will be used for office staff with none of that money going toward the fishermen. The politicians are very creative in their use of OUR money. They will find legal (not moral) ways to confiscate any money that should go to our benefit.
You want a license, just send the state a check for $25 every year that you want to fish. I don't want to do that. The state already has way too much of my money now.
-
Hi Ken grtn! It is a GREAT bunch of people here who are very passionate and talented. People who fish for sport and recreation and also those trying to make a living.
Can you answer this question for me. It will give me a better understanding where you are coming from. Are you supporting a saltwater license because you believe in the good it will do, or are you supporting a license because we have been backed into a corner and have little to no options left?
Thanks.
TT^
-
I think Kensdock figures it is something that is inevitable! Which is a fact. Either we pay NOAA a Registry Fee in 2011 or we pay a NJ State Saltwater License and keep the money here in the State. The Bill for a Free Registry in NJ failed miserably in State Legislature.
A3252, S2080 Failed because the sponsor of S2080 refused to allow an amendment to add a cost covering fee to the bill and the Committee Chairman refused to release a non-funded mandate which he knew would not pass. They have both been reintroduced in the latest legislative session as A823 and S1122.
The big problem, lies in the fact, that the NJ Fisheries Council, needs to get moving on this if NJ is going to do this for 2011. The other problem is, we already see almost no money from fees already paid. So, to get the monies appropriated where they should be, is the biggest fight. I think this is where Kensdock and supporters are headed...to get on board early and push the State for the Saltwater License and fees to go back into saltwater fisheries. However, to this point, what the monies could help are only "what if's" or maybe's"...nothing has even been drafted, yet set in stone.
The NJ Marine Fisheries Council is presently made up of five commercial fishermen, four recreational fishermen and one “public at large” member with one “public at large” member seat unfilled (for the last three years). The present “public at large” member is a member of academia from Rutgers who has worked with both groups professionally. The only sure way to protect any fees from being redirected is thru a State constitutional amendment specifying where, how and on what the funds would be spent.
At some point, we all are going to have to consider this...IMO the days of free saltwater fishing are over and we lost that fight with NOAA. So plan B may really have to be an option soon.
Fishing tidal waters without paying a fee to government will soon be history. We are the only state left without some form of legislation mandating it.
I am interested to hear from guys like Capt TB, dropoff, hutchjr, njdiver, etc...and see what their opinion on this is? Is this a fight we should continue to keep saltwater fishing free or do we need to concede and get on the next best train?
TT^
I am reserving my opinion for when someone in Trenton reveals legislation that makes sense. However long that might take. I will continue to relate facts on this issue as I uncover them.
-
THANK YOU njdiver TT^!
clp
-
Check the NOAA site for the estimated NJ anglers then multiply the number by 20 or 40 dollars. The 150,000,000 dollars NJ lost due to not having a saltwater license fund,check for yourself to see if the money was available.
You are once again proposing having NJ be the most expensive saltwater licensing agency on the east coast.
Check the achievements of the saltwater angler group CCA that support a saltwater license. I am sure after reading what they have done for saltwater fishermen and saltwater fish stocks their opinion will at lest get your attention. http://www.joincca.org/Accomplishments.html
There is no CCA chapter here in NJ.
-
Again Ken, I will ask. Did the saltwater license that Maryland, Virginia and others have keep the sea bass fishing open to them. The answer, as you know, is NO, IT DID NOT, THE SEA BASS FISHING IS C-L-O-S-E-D FOR THEM ALSO.
“Maryland is of particular interest because in 1985 it became the very first state along the entire eastern seaboard to require licensing of some part of its marine recreational angling public.”
http://www.gsmfc.org/publications/WB-Sport%20Fish/WB%20No.%20004.PDF
The money the state will get from the saltwater fishermen license will first be used to pay for the LEOs that are now being paid by the state. The state will then have the money they used to pay for them at their disposal. More money will be used for office staff with none of that money going toward the fishermen. The politicians are very creative in their use of OUR money. They will find legal (not moral) ways to confiscate any money that should go to our benefit.
NY has already done that.
Laws for the eligibility and use of Wallop/Breaux funds:
Title 50: Wildlife and Fisheries
PART 80—ADMINISTRATIVE REQUIREMENTS, PITTMAN—ROBERTSON WILDLIFE RESTORATION AND DINGELL-JOHNSON SPORT FISH RESTORATION ACTS
Authority: 16 U.S.C. 777–777n; 16 U.S.C. 669–669k; 18 U.S.C. 701.
(Snip)
§ 80.3 Assent legislation.
A State may participate in the benefits of the Act(s) only after it has passed legislation which assents to the provisions of the Acts and has passed laws for the conservation of fish and wildlife including a prohibition against the diversion of license fees paid by hunters and sport fishermen to purposes other than administration of the fish and wildlife agency. Subsequent legislation which amends these state laws shall be subject to review by the Secretary. If the legislation is found contrary to the assent provisions, the State shall become ineligible.
§ 80.4 Diversion of license fees.
Revenues from license fees paid by hunters and fishermen shall not be diverted to purposes other than administration of the State fish and wildlife agency.
(Snip)
(b) For purposes of this rule, administration of the State fish and wildlife agency include only those functions required to manage the fish and wildlife-oriented resources of the State for which the agency has authority under State law.
(c) A diversion of license fee revenues occurs when any portion of license revenues is used for any purpose other than the administration of the State fish and wildlife agency.
(d) If a diversion of license revenues occurs, the State becomes ineligible to participate under the pertinent Act from the date the diversion is declared by the Director until:
(1) Adequate legislative prohibitions are in place to prevent diversion of license revenue, and
(2) All license revenues or assets acquired with license revenues are restored, or an amount equal to license revenue diverted or current market value of assets diverted (whichever is greater) is returned and properly available for use for the administration of the State fish and wildlife agency.
(Snip)
[54 FR 15209, Apr. 17, 1989, as amended at 73 FR 43128, July 24, 2008]
§ 80.5 Eligible undertakings.
The following are eligible for funding under the Acts:
(Snip)
(2) Projects having as their purpose the education of hunters and archers in the skills, knowledges, and attitudes necessary to be a responsible hunter or archer.
(b) Dingell-Johnson Sport Fish Restoration Act.
(1) Projects having as their purpose the restoration, conservation, management, and enhancement of sport fish, and the provision for public use and benefits from these resources. Sport fish are limited to aquatic, gill-breathing, vertebrate animals, bearing paired fins, and having material value for sport or recreation.
(2) Additional funds resulting from expansion of the Sport Fish Restoration Program must be added to existing State fishery program funds available from traditional sources and not as a substitute therefor.
[47 FR 22539, May 25, 1982, as amended at 50 FR 21448, May 24, 1985; 73 FR 43128, July 24, 2008]
§ 80.6 Prohibited activities.
The following are not eligible for funding under the Acts, except when necessary for the accomplishment of project purposes as approved by the regional director.
(a) Law enforcement activities conducted by the State to enforce the fish and game regulations.
(b) Public relations activities conducted to promote the State fish and wildlife agency.
-
Capt. Joe makes a good point. The politicians of this state would reallocate or "borrow" the funds. Use these monies to pay something else off. The fishing community would see a minimal return.
-
Hi Ken grtn! It is a GREAT bunch of people here who are very passionate and talented. People who fish for sport and recreation and also those trying to make a living.
Can you answer this question for me. It will give me a better understanding where you are coming from. Are you supporting a saltwater license because you believe in the good it will do, or are you supporting a license because we have been backed into a corner and have little to no options left?
Thanks.
TT^
At this point, We are shortly going to be paying the federal government about 25 million dollars a year. NJ fishermen will see no benefits from the money, as it will be deposited in the US general fund. If NJ implements a saltwater license the money will stay in NJ and be invested in our saltwater resources via a dedicated fund.
If NJ would have been proactive and had a saltwater license in place this year, in addition to the many benefits of a license, there was a chance that our 2010 flounder season could have been May 1- Nov 1 with a 17" fish, 6 fish bag limit.
-
At this point, We are shortly going to be paying the federal government about 25 million dollars a year. NJ fishermen will see no benefits from the money, as it will be deposited in the US general fund. If NJ implements a saltwater license the money will stay in NJ and be invested in our saltwater resources via a dedicated fund.
So you are supporting a NJ State License because either we pay the Feds or or we pay the State. I can agree with that. However, if you ask me if I want a saltwater license, YES or NO, my answer is NO!
If NJ would have been proactive and had a saltwater license in place this year, in addition to the many benefits of a license, there was a chance that our 2010 flounder season could have been May 1- Nov 1 with a 17" fish, 6 fish bag limit.
I think Captain Tony Bogan(Capt TB) will disagree with you on this point...I just hope he doesn't yell too loud ;D!
TT^
-
At this point, We are shortly going to be paying the federal government about 25 million dollars a year. NJ fishermen will see no benefits from the money, as it will be deposited in the US general fund. If NJ implements a saltwater license the money will stay in NJ and be invested in our saltwater resources via a dedicated fund.
There is no way, presently, to estimate how much the NSAR will cost next year. There are also too many estimates out there as to how many fishermen there are in NJ, let alone how many will purchase a NJ saltwater license, to get other than a large range of potential funds it would bring in. Your “estimate” of revenue to NJ from a saltwater license would still make us the most expensive State on the Eastern Seaboard.
If NJ would have been proactive and had a saltwater license in place this year, in addition to the many benefits of a license, there was a chance that our 2010 flounder season could have been May 1- Nov 1 with a 17" fish, 6 fish bag limit.
You have got to divulge the source of that one!
-
At this point, We are shortly going to be paying the federal government about 25 million dollars a year. NJ fishermen will see no benefits from the money, as it will be deposited in the US general fund. If NJ implements a saltwater license the money will stay in NJ and be invested in our saltwater resources via a dedicated fund.
No need to pay either the feds or the state any where near this amount. The state can put in a REGISTRY for about $2 a person from what has been previously posted by those in the know and not by someone with only an opinion. No valid reason to have a license.
If NJ would have been proactive and had a saltwater license in place this year, in addition to the many benefits of a license, there was a chance that our 2010 flounder season could have been May 1- Nov 1 with a 17" fish, 6 fish bag limit.
Wow, did you get that from Grimm's Fairy Tales? I saw that nowhere at all in any of the things I have read. Is this possibly another one of your assumptions or wishes?
-
The 2 dollar fee your talking about was found to be impossible by: the NJ marine fisheries council, the director of NJ fish & wildlife, and the New Jersey Senate committee,that decided it was not even worthy of a Senate vote. NJ Governor Christie has publicly stated he will no sigh any unfunded" legislation.
It always amazes me at what some people will believe, like the local used car guy that will give you free" ticket to Florida if you buy from him.
As far as the flounder season, NOAA is charging NJ flounder fishermen for 1.2 million saltwater anglers. The US fish and wildlife survey found only 600,000 saltwater anglers. Apply the reasoning ability of a fifth grader to this information. You will find why there was a chance" of an increase to our flounder season if we had a NJ saltwater license in place this year.
-
It always amazes me at what some people will believe, like the local used car guy that will give you free" ticket to Florida if you buy from him.
Then you must be extremely amazed at yourself. You have drunk your kool-aid and that of many others if you truely believe a saltwater license will help you.
-
Kinda like having a drivers licence prevents pot holes rofla
NJ Saltwater fishing licence = Money grab
-
NJ Governor Christie has publicly stated he will no sigh any unfunded" legislation.
Interesting. Was he talking specifically about the registry or any new legislation? When did he say this? Was it in his recent budget speech? Where can I find this statement?
-
it was about any legislation . Christie probably didn't even know of any fishery issues in this state until he took office. His main agenda right now is to "screw" the teacher's union and any other gov't employee.
-
The 2 dollar fee your talking about was found to be impossible by: the NJ marine fisheries council, the director of NJ fish & wildlife, and the New Jersey Senate committee,that decided it was not even worthy of a Senate vote.
what is the cost for a bonus striper tag?what does it cost to issue . I think a few of the people that were part of the converstions with the DEP, fish and game and others may have some things to add. Some pretty upseting things were responded to a proposed self funded registry with no tax payer liabiliy
-
His main agenda right now is to "screw" the teacher's union and any other gov't employee.
I agree with you there TB. He doesn't make any pretenses to be a friend of any union worker. nosmly
-
There is two estimates of NJ saltwater anglers, NOAA's about 1.2 million and the resent US fish and wildlife survey of hunters and fishermen that estimated about 600,000 NJ saltwater anglers .NOAA uses 1.2 million when setting our flounder season options.
.Here is were I obtained my number of NJ saltwater anglers http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st5/publication/econ/MA_NJTables , I was made aware of US F&W survey by CaptTB and Hutchjr of the RFA during a debate over a NJ saltwater license. Actually the 1.2 is a little higher and the 600,000 is a little lower. It is easy to reason, that with an accurate count of NJ saltwater anglers our flounder season could be greatly increased.
I would have paid 25 or 30 dollars for a saltwater license this year for the chance of greatly extending our flounder season, let alone the other benefits of a NJ saltwater license.
-
How a about this for once!
Give us the so called benefits of a salt water licenses, upfront!
We will function under the same paper work or accounting that the powers to be feel will benefit us, for a period of 3 years.
If for once we are not being screwed, we will pay you 3 years worth of fishing license fees going into the 4th year.
So how about we pay after services are rendered not before. I'd rather see it as a benefit not another mandatory tax.
If you are not interested in the terms, stick your license straight in your arss!
-
Not a bad idea,not sure if it would work. At lest have something written into the law, that if the license money is used for anything else the license law would become null and void.
-
I would like to add one more cost to the list. I need a little help, how much do you think two months of closed flounder season cost the party boat, charter boat or the industry in general?
Hutchjr RFA quote---
My point has nothing to do with minimizing a saltwater license mind you – I’m simply trying to point out a huge discrepancy in numbers here. There are statisticians who have done other work that’s more comprehensive than this, which has uncovered a similar pattern. MRFSS estimates continue to come significantly higher than both US Fish and Wildlife Service estimates and those of saltwater fishing license sales in given states.
The fact of the matter is that MRFSS has been overestimating the number of saltwater anglers and associated trips, which in turn has grossly inflated our annual harvest and thereby decimated our annual harvest limits. --end quote---
-
What is your point here? Do you have a clear direction? This is not how you rally the troops! This is New Jersey!
-
I would like to add one more cost to the list. I need a little help, how much do you think two months of closed flounder season cost the party boat, charter boat or the industry in general?
First, please do NOT pretend you give two shits about partyboats. Shall I get the numerous quotes from you on other boards where you continually BASH the "partyboat lobby" as you put it? Where you ramble on about how the "Partyboat lobby will no longer get its way?"
Stop bullshitting, you are not very good at it and you are as disingenuous a person as I have ever seen on the internet.
(by the way, I would not waste my time getting quotes from you from other sites, they are there for all to see unless you go back and edit them ::)
Hutchjr RFA quote---
My point has nothing to do with minimizing a saltwater license mind you – I’m simply trying to point out a huge discrepancy in numbers here. There are statisticians who have done other work that’s more comprehensive than this, which has uncovered a similar pattern. MRFSS estimates continue to come significantly higher than both US Fish and Wildlife Service estimates and those of saltwater fishing license sales in given states.
The fact of the matter is that MRFSS has been overestimating the number of saltwater anglers and associated trips, which in turn has grossly inflated our annual harvest and thereby decimated our annual harvest limits. --end quote---
And Hutch is dead on. Difference is, we want the government to actually do their job properly instead of doing a Pee poor job and wasting millions of tax payer dollars and then hiding behind the law that makes their ONLY science the "best available" by default.
Problem is you would rather PAY EVEN MORE MONEY instead of MKAING THEM DO THEIR JOB RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!
-
What is your point here? Do you have a clear direction? This is not how you rally the troops! This is New Jersey!
My point,
Capt TB,
What I care about has nothing to do with the question. I am a reasonable person. When I am wrong, I have no problem admitting it! You should try it! You know or should know, the free registry bill you are pushing
has very little chance of ever passing. You should have acted in the best interest of the fishermen you represent and pushed a saltwater license bill. I am sure a saltwater license bill would have passed if everybody was working together. If the US fish and wildlife and the other indicators Hutchjr mentioned are correct about the number of saltwater anglers, the people you represent lost money due to not having a NJ saltwater license. The rest of us lost a lot of good days of fishing.
An accurate count of NJ saltwater fishermen could have remove 700,000 theoretical anglers from the water.
How much did it cost the charter captain for a closed winter sea bass season?
How much did it cost the party boat owner for a closed fall flounder season? It is time to push personal egos to the side, and poll the membership before taking positions on issues such as a saltwater license.
The Cape May CO. Charter and Party boat ass, voiced their support of a saltwater license at the NJMFC meeting.
The largest saltwater angler ass. in the united states supports a saltwater license.
The New Jersey Marine Fisheries council supports a saltwater license.
The New Jersey federation of sportsmen's clubs support a saltwater license.
All the polls I have seen, that have been taken after long debate on the issue, have favored a NJ saltwater license.
How many would have paid for CaptTB's 25 dollar NJ saltwater license for a chance of a winter sea bass season and a greatly increased flounder season?
-
Ken, what part of a free NJ saltwater fishing registration would meet every requirement of the mag/steve act do you not understand?
If the same can be done for free, why you anybody in their right mind want to pay? Oh, that might be the answer, you HAVE TO BE IN YOUR RIGHT MIND TO NOT WANT TO PAY.
The guys on this board have more than once expressed their displeasure with a saltwater fishing license. Check previous threads and you will see this.
Please come to your senses with this issue before it is too late. nosmly
-
What is your point here? Do you have a clear direction? This is not how you rally the troops! This is New Jersey!
My point,
Capt TB,
What I care about has nothing to do with the question. I am a reasonable person. When I am wrong, I have no problem admitting it! You should try it! You know or should know, the free registry bill you are pushing
has very little chance of ever passing. You should have acted in the best interest of the fishermen you represent and pushed a saltwater license bill. I am sure a saltwater license bill would have passed if everybody was working together. If the US fish and wildlife and the other indicators Hutchjr mentioned are correct about the number of saltwater anglers, the people you represent lost money due to not having a NJ saltwater license. The rest of us lost a lot of good days of fishing.
An accurate count of NJ saltwater fishermen could have remove 700,000 theoretical anglers from the water.
How much did it cost the charter captain for a closed winter sea bass season?
How much did it cost the party boat owner for a closed fall flounder season? It is time to push personal egos to the side, and poll the membership before taking positions on issues such as a saltwater license.
The Cape May CO. Charter and Party boat ass, voiced their support of a saltwater license at the NJMFC meeting.
The largest saltwater angler ass. in the united states supports a saltwater license.
The New Jersey Marine Fisheries council supports a saltwater license.
The New Jersey federation of sportsmen's clubs support a saltwater license.
All the polls I have seen, that have been taken after long debate on the issue, have favored a NJ saltwater license.
How many would have paid for CaptTB's 25 dollar NJ saltwater license for a chance of a winter sea bass season and a greatly increased flounder season?
Ken, first you might want to pay attention to whom you are quoting. The above quote you reference was not even mine!
Second, you do realize that if everyone was behind a FREE registry then it WOULD have a good chance of passing (by the way, the free registry bill in the House made it out of committee and onto the floor for a vote!!)
All the BS and fantasy you spout as being fact is just that, BS and Fantasy. Nevertheless, under your scenario everyone would have to pay money to get accurate angler numbers, and a potential drop in angler numbers that could have a positive effect on our regs.
Under my scenario (free registry) everyone would get THE EXACT SAME THINGS, except it WOULD NOT COST THEM ONE RED CENT!
And your way is better because why? :headscra: :headscra:
-
First,the benefits of a saltwater license are real! What has been accomplished for saltwater fishermen in the southern states through revenue raised via a saltwater license demands recognition.
TB,Are you aware as to what groups oppose a saltwater license? Commercial fishing for sure. A good bet Green peace and peta. Why,they realize the political power in a group of 500,000 to 1.4 million saltwater anglers defined by a license will possess.
Nothing is free. You get what you pay for!
-
A saltwater fishing registry CAN be free and will give the very same numbers that a paid for fishing license will provide. It doesn't get any clearer than that.
Southern states still have a closed season for sea bass just like we, without a license, do.
Further south has closed seasons also from the simple azz regulations. Little good a license did them.
A823 Requires DEP to establish free recreational saltwater fishing registry.
-
(http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/smiliesadd1/dead_horse.gif)
-
(http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/smiliesadd1/dead_horse.gif)
rofla
-
man this post is getting old nts
-
Can we move on please!! rgmn rgmn
-
First,the benefits of a saltwater license are real! What has been accomplished for saltwater fishermen in the southern states through revenue raised via a saltwater license demands recognition.
Sorry, but whomever told you that you had to PAY to be recognized also tried to sell you this really nice bridge for sale. You see, if I have a card that says I belong to a group of fishermen, I have been counted, and am therefore a KNOWN voting block. I don't pay to be registered as a republican, I do not pay to be registered as a democrat. My card is FREE. Your card COSTS MONEY. They both serve the EXACT SAME PURPOSE is providing a KNOWN UNIVERSE of anglers and...
wait for it.....
VOTERS!! Difference is Kenny boy, you were dumb enough to volunteer to pay for something you could have had for free!!!
But yes, those southern states have lots of great things.
Like closed season for sea bass.
Like closed season for Amberjack.
Like closed season for Red Snapper.
Like closed waters FROM NORTH CAROLINA TO FLORIDA for ALL BOTTOM FISHING.
Yessirree! Those license fees did a whole lot for them uh huh! Yep, and they did not even hold onto their license fees!!! VA governor took hundreds of thousands out of their license fees! Look it up Kenny, it is public record. Oh, and they did not lose ONE RED CENT of federal matching funds. Sorry, nice try with the whole BS "protected funds" line.
NY lost over 3 MILLION dollars in funding from the state, cause now they have a license that generates same. So, in the end, they gained ZERO DOLLARS!! Except, fishermen get to pay more anyway!!!
Oh and the lifetime license from NY??? Money does NOT go into fisheries fund, sorry, only yearly license sales. Buy for life, money wasted!!!!
Shall we go on?
Please, let's!!
TB,Are you aware as to what groups oppose a saltwater license? Commercial fishing for sure.
WRONG!!
Had you actually ever been involved in ANY fisheries management whatsoever you would know that the commercial sector as a whole has been pushing for both licensing of, and subsequent limited entry of the recreational sector FOR YEARS!! Look it up kenny boy, it is in the administrative record for at LEAST the past decade in the Mid Atlantic and New England. You really have no clue what you are talking about! I SAT AT THE TABLE while commercial interests have pushed for a license mandate. Where were you????
A good bet Green peace and peta. Why,they realize the political power in a group of 500,000 to 1.4 million saltwater anglers defined by a license will possess.
See above.
Nothing is free. You get what you pay for!
I got a better one...
"A fool and his money are soon parted."
Obviously the original author of that quote knew you personally. rofla
-
Man Capt Tb can whip out some wicked good responses!!!
;D clp
-
clp Capt Bogan is the man!
-
I am Sorry Capt.Tony.. that you have to waste so much effort on this.. :-\
-
I do not pay to be registered as a democrat. My card is FREE.
Capt TB your post almost made me teary eye. I will have a Barney Frank poster sent To the office lol
-
thud
nosmly
slt
-
5hrug
-
I do not pay to be registered as a democrat. My card is FREE.
Capt TB your post almost made me teary eye. I will have a Barney Frank poster sent To the office lol
Hey hey HHHHEEEEYYYYYYY!!!
You left out the first part that said "I don't pay to be registered as a republican"!!!!
Sound bite! ;D
-
First,the benefits of a saltwater license are real! What has been accomplished for saltwater fishermen in the southern states through revenue raised via a saltwater license demands recognition.
Sorry, but whomever told you that you had to PAY to be recognized also tried to sell you this really nice bridge for sale. You see, if I have a card that says I belong to a group of fishermen, I have been counted, and am therefore a KNOWN voting block. I don't pay to be registered as a republican, I do not pay to be registered as a democrat. My card is FREE. Your card COSTS MONEY. They both serve the EXACT SAME PURPOSE is providing a KNOWN UNIVERSE of anglers and...
wait for it.....
VOTERS!! Difference is Kenny boy, you were dumb enough to volunteer to pay for something you could have had for free!!!
But yes, those southern states have lots of great things.
Like closed season for sea bass.
Like closed season for Amberjack.
Like closed season for Red Snapper.
Like closed waters FROM NORTH CAROLINA TO FLORIDA for ALL BOTTOM FISHING.
Yessirree! Those license fees did a whole lot for them uh huh! Yep, and they did not even hold onto their license fees!!! VA governor took hundreds of thousands out of their license fees! Look it up Kenny, it is public record. Oh, and they did not lose ONE RED CENT of federal matching funds. Sorry, nice try with the whole BS "protected funds" line.
NY lost over 3 MILLION dollars in funding from the state, cause now they have a license that generates same. So, in the end, they gained ZERO DOLLARS!! Except, fishermen get to pay more anyway!!!
Oh and the lifetime license from NY??? Money does NOT go into fisheries fund, sorry, only yearly license sales. Buy for life, money wasted!!!!
Shall we go on?
Please, let's!!
TB,Are you aware as to what groups oppose a saltwater license? Commercial fishing for sure.
WRONG!!
Had you actually ever been involved in ANY fisheries management whatsoever you would know that the commercial sector as a whole has been pushing for both licensing of, and subsequent limited entry of the recreational sector FOR YEARS!! Look it up kenny boy, it is in the administrative record for at LEAST the past decade in the Mid Atlantic and New England. You really have no clue what you are talking about! I SAT AT THE TABLE while commercial interests have pushed for a license mandate. Where were you????
A good bet Green peace and peta. Why,they realize the political power in a group of 500,000 to 1.4 million saltwater anglers defined by a license will possess.
See above.
Nothing is free. You get what you pay for!
I got a better one...
"A fool and his money are soon parted."
Obviously the original author of that quote knew you personally. rofla
Jerry Schull, Executive Director of North Carolina Fisheries Association has been leading the fight against a saltwater license: He was quoted in the November 2003 issue of National Fisherman as saying, "Look what happened in other states. In some states you have got game fish status. In other states gill net bans. In Florida, they got the ultimate: a commercial net ban."
Why does the commercial fishing industry oppose a salt water license?
The commercial fishing industry has been the only paying user group in fisheries management in New Jersey. Pay to play is alive and well here in the Garden State. They realize what they will be up against if a saltwater license is approved; a revenue generating, unified, politically powerful constituency of recreational anglers that will change the way of fisheries management in NJ.
Obviously, you have not spent much time fishing in Florida or Texas as I am sure you would realize the benefits of a saltwater license.
Take a look at what can be accomplished with investing money in our saltwater fish stocks http://www.joincca.org/Accomplishments.html
The closed sea bass season and others are in Federal waters and have nothing to do with a state fishing license.
Capt.TB Whose side are you on?
Most recreational anglers support a saltwater license according to the polls that have been taken after long debate on the subject. Taking into consideration precision and bias, the accuracy of the polls are excellent.
-
Also, A magazine I was reading from the Phila. Boat Show had a article in it that stated that the saltwater license fees will be available for anything the government wants since it is a federal issue. It may be free this year but i think the only reason they want you to register is so that the gov. can see what kind of income they can generate next year. cfzd thud
-
Supposedly, the fee for next year will be dictated by how many register this year. They will take the total expense and divide it by the number of registered anglers and that will be the fee. I read that somewhere but can't remember where :headscra: or I would post it.
-
Supposedly, the fee for next year will be dictated by how many register this year. They will take the total expense and divide it by the number of registered anglers and that will be the fee. I read that somewhere but can't remember where :headscra: or I would post it.
Is this what you read?
There is no ceiling to what we might have to pay:
8. Is there a fee to register?
There is no fee to register in 2010. A fee will be required as of January 1, 2011.
9. How much will registration cost in 2011?
The fee for registering in 2011 has not been established yet, but NOAA estimates it will cost between $15 and $25.
10. How will the fee be determined?
According to Federal law, the registration fee will be calculated based on the cost to administer the program. That means that NOAA will look at the total amount of money it takes to run the registry, and divide that by the anticipated number of people registering. In other words, if the program costs $25,000 to operate and 1,000 people were registering, the fee would be $25 per angler.
https://www.countmyfish.noaa.gov/faq_registry.htmlhttps://www.countmyfish.noaa.gov/faq_registry.html (https://www.countmyfish.noaa.gov/faq_registry.htmlhttps://www.countmyfish.noaa.gov/faq_registry.html)
PART 600-MAGNUSON-STEVENS ACT PROVISIONS
Subpart P--Marine Recreational Fisheries of the United States
§ 600.1410 Registry process.
(f) Fees. Effective January 1, 2011, persons registering with NMFS must pay an annual fee. The annual schedule for such fees will be published in the Federal Register. Indigenous people engaging in angling or spear fishing must register, but are not required to pay a fee.
https://www.countmyfish.noaa.gov/abo...Final_Rule.pdf
-
That is pretty much what I read NJDiver. The anticipated number of people registering will come from the previous year's registry.
So, I think we are saying the same thing here, correct?
-
Obviously, you have not spent much time fishing in Florida or Texas as I am sure you would realize the benefits of a saltwater license.
This is NJ...everything is different and what works in one state, doesn't have to work in another
Take a look at what can be accomplished with investing money in our saltwater fish stocks http://www.joincca.org/Accomplishments.html
How does my SWL Fee go towards the CCA I though that is why I would join as a member and pay dues? They were so concerned, they didn't even show up at the Rally in DC last month!
The closed sea bass season and others are in Federal waters and have nothing to do with a state fishing license.
Make up your mind...in previous posts you stated a SWL would have kept head and charter boats from being docked this Fall. Which is it?
Capt.TB Whose side are you on?
Most recreational anglers support a saltwater license according to the polls that have been taken after long debate on the subject. Taking into consideration precision and bias, the accuracy of the polls are excellent.
I wish you could show me some of these polls and the statistics and questions asked. So far, I have found ONE(1) Poll on your website with less than 70 people who voted...not compelling enough for me. I guess they didn't poll the right people either b/c I would say that most of the people on this site are a BIG NO.
...And here is my quote from another post:
TB,You have no idea of what I know or do not know about commercial fishing. What you should know is that regulators routinely take enforceability into consideration.
OK...I am not trying to be mean or nasty, like I have stated before. ...But, if you know more or have more knowledge of regulations and fisheries how come you don't share this. Everything is so secretive with you and all of your posts are 99% propaganda with no basis on facts! They come off very ignorant and insincere. Opinions are like @$$holes, everyone has one, some are cleaner than others and some spew more effin $*@! than others...yours seems to spew non stop. I think, I can speak for all of the other members here, who are very, very good people, excellent and knowledgeable fishermen/women, who have no problem having a healthy argument, yet giving you the shirt off their back if you needed it, WE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF READING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN! WE GET IT...you want a saltwater license. That is your choice and your opinion and if you believe this is best then stick with that. You are certainly not winning over others here with your half @ss campaign and propaganda.
Now, with that being said, how about posting some fishing information and joining this great community for what it is...the real reason we are all here. I think if you join us this way, you will see the knowledge and expertise of the people here and we will see yours as well. I don't doubt that you are a passionate, experienced and talented fisherman...so contribute to the positives and leave the argumentative stuff for the politicians!
TT^
-
Jerry Schull, Executive Director of North Carolina Fisheries Association has been leading the fight against a saltwater license: He was quoted in the November 2003 issue of National Fisherman as saying, "Look what happened in other states. In some states you have got game fish status. In other states gill net bans. In Florida, they got the ultimate: a commercial net ban."
Oh Kenny Kenny Kenny boy, you need to do something more than look crap up on the internet, you are not very good at that either, but the internet cannot replace real world experience.
First off, Jerry SCHILL (not schull) has not been the head of NCFA since 2005 when he stepped down (I dealt with Jerry at several MAFMC meetings, did you?)
Second, that is a guy that represented (past tense) ONE commercial organization from ONE state. But, apparently in your mind that means all, everywhere, everytime nts
In addition, I have FAMILY that has lived AND RUN BOATS in Florida for DECADES, and they will be the FIRST ONES to tell you that a license did NOT get them a net ban. However, I digress, since I have been going to Florida for 41 years of my 41 year life and have family there, have owned property there and STILL have family members that live AND RUN BOATS there, I think I can speak about Florida as well if not better than you, but nice try anyway.
Why does the commercial fishing industry oppose a salt water license?
They do not. Some individuals or groups might, but not all, not even most. As I said, you have ZERO first hand experience dealing with this issue, whereas I have actually lived it and debated it. Sat there, AT THE TABLE (which you were not at) and HEARD WITH MY OWN EARS the commercial representatives wanting us to be licensed and limited entry, JUST LIKE THEM.
Reading old articles on the internet about one guy from one organization 4 states away hardly qualifies as "the commercial industry" Ken, but you keep on believing rgmn
The closed sea bass season and others are in Federal waters and have nothing to do with a state fishing license.
Wrong again Kenny boy, you really suck at this don't ya? fcp
Know what the ONLY STATE to vote to close Sea Bass in STATE WATERS was at the ASMFC?
North Carolina.
But you are right, it was a federal closure. And guess what Kenny boy, the salt water license in all those states that have them COULDN"T MAKE A DAMN BIT OF DIFFERENCE!! They have the closures same as us, except WE DID NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR THE privilege OF HAVING OUR FISHERIES CLOSED!!
Capt.TB Whose side are you on?
The side of rational, well reasoned thought, and not unsupported, un substantiated nonsense like the kind your spew, based on nothing more than google searches.
Most recreational anglers support a saltwater license according to the polls that have been taken after long debate on the subject.
Lie. Your polls are a JOKE since they did NOT have all the options listed, get a life Kenny boy, this is really getting boring. Show everyone your poll, it was a total scam.
Taking into consideration precision and bias, the accuracy of the polls are excellent.
Really? Did you have your poll statistically validated by a professional polling service?
I challenge the validity of your statements.
Prove it. I can back up every statement I made with 100% verifiable facts. Nothing I have said is not in the public record.
You, sir, cannot say the same. Show me your calculation for precision and bias in your polls. Show the FACTS that support your ASSumptions. Please list the company that verified your poll results as being statistically valid or even the statistician who designed the poll or even verified the validity of your poll based on the actual topic and options that were available to the public at the time the poll was taken.
Yeah, I though as much nts
-
Take a look at what can be accomplished with investing money in our saltwater fish stocks http://www.joincca.org/Accomplishments.html
Check the achievements of the saltwater angler group CCA that support a saltwater license. I am sure after reading what they have done for saltwater fishermen and saltwater fish stocks their opinion will at lest get your attention. http://www.joincca.org/Accomplishments.html
CCA the largest angler ass. {100,000} members on the east coast support a saltwater license
All from an organization like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6THD4oySILU&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6THD4oySILU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6THD4oySILU&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6THD4oySILU&feature=related)
-
Just for the record...
Kensdock.. is no longer with us.
-
clp
I'm sorry TB. I really am.
-
Thanks God... This issue with this licene thing should have been over after the second page... Just curious, did he leave or did we kick him off smk.
Either way I think it is for the best. ;D
Gimper
-
We removed him.........
-
His license expired and got revoked. ;D
-
someone like him will just register under a new name like kens$0ck (keepin it clean)
-
Nah.. it's not that simple..
-
Nah.. it's not that simple..
TT^
-
We removed him.........
clp
-
whs Glad He's gone. TT^
-
His license expired and got revoked. ;D
rofla
-
IMHO. Since this is a private forum ,mods can
make the TOS and do as they want . This is not America this is a web site. That being said Although I did not agree with Kensdock he did present info (much discredited) to support his stance and opinions, and I do not believe he was rude or theatened anyone. He just had an opinion and did a fair job of trying to get the last word.....hence this thread not dieing on the vine. I am sure Kens view is shared by many other fisherman ( no matter if I think it's right or wrong). Will I be next if I disagree with anyone? Rod has a wonderful site here and I am proud to be a member and be among friends( even though we may have differentt politcal view) I truely believe If I was in need you guys would be there and I would do the same . This post is in no way meant to question Rods decisions on this site(it is his house and I am just a guest but I may do a little cut and paste the next time someone talks freedom or not having thier viove heard........rant is over let get back to the fishin
-
Kensdock was not released because of his opinion. Ken was released because he continued to push his agenda and had nothing to offer to defend his opinion. Now this is the important part...He continuously posted wrong information and when shown that it was wrong STILL posted the same wrong information.
Debate is good, as long as each side gives VALID information. When someone continues to provide false and misleading information that must be stopped.
-
No Worries Brother Birch.. t^ Joe did hit the nail on the head..
-
Capt Birch, just an FYI...what I posted above was not directed at you, it was so everyone knows why the action was taken. t^
-
IMHO. Since this is a private forum ,mods can
make the TOS and do as they want . This is not America this is a web site. That being said Although I did not agree with Kensdock he did present info (much discredited) to support his stance and opinions, and I do not believe he was rude or theatened anyone. He just had an opinion and did a fair job of trying to get the last word.....hence this thread not dieing on the vine. I am sure Kens view is shared by many other fisherman ( no matter if I think it's right or wrong). Will I be next if I disagree with anyone? Rod has a wonderful site here and I am proud to be a member and be among friends( even though we may have differentt politcal view) I truely believe If I was in need you guys would be there and I would do the same . This post is in no way meant to question Rods decisions on this site(it is his house and I am just a guest but I may do a little cut and paste the next time someone talks freedom or not having thier viove heard........rant is over let get back to the fishin
This is not the first site he has been banned from for the same reasons given by Irish.
-
Kensdock was not released because of his opinion. Ken was released because he continued to push his agenda and had nothing to offer to defend his opinion. Now this is the important part...He continuously posted wrong information and when shown that it was wrong STILL posted the same wrong information.
Debate is good, as long as each side gives VALID information. When someone continues to provide false and misleading information that must be stopped.
.
I think I read a few post about the economy getting worse and a plan to ban all fishing. The facts prove other wise. ......................ok now somthing I am sure we can all agree on squid is way way way way better than Power bait ........lol Let this weather clear and get fishin
-
t^
-
Mr. Dock did the same thing on that other message board. Either Mr. Dock has something to gain from NJ having a license or he likes to start trouble. I will never know the real answer to that. Its just like the guy from NOAA on the other board who supports the terrible regulations and belongs to a fishing message board, where you know 99.9% of the members do not like the regulations. He gets offended if you oppose said regulations. But he belongs to a message board where the members do not like the regulations.
How would you like to be in North Carolina and had to pay for a saltwater fishing license. Ok, so in January you paid your fee. Then at some point the government closed some access areas on the OBX. And you paid for this? Then in October you want to load up your Parker with fresh clams and get out there and try to get some sea bass. No dice. NOAA closes sea bass. And you paid for this?
I don't know what the party boats pay for to run their business. Insurence. Gas. Slips. Bait. Line. Weights. Fees to the government? On and on. Now you want these hard working American Family businesses to pay for a blanket saltwater fishing license so their customers do not have to. Lets say the party boats had to buy this thing in 2010. Ok, now pretend you are on Long Beach Island and its September 13, 2010. We paid our fee so our customers do not have to. What in God's name are we fishing for on September 13, 2010 and beyond until we get to November 16, 2010? Our one blackfish? Fight through the sea bass and hope to find porgy's? Our ONE weakfish? Maybe triggers? I haven't caught a trigger in four years.
If it was just for me, to do my once a year try at surf fishing......... Ok, here is my 15 bucks. I've never caught anything from the beach, but I try on my vacation each year and I still fail. Or I can go to the Barnegat Inlet and fish for blackfish and if I get a keeper, I will take it with me. So in my mind that 15 bucks produced something for me. But to make a boat pay 500 bucks or so and we look at September 13, 2010 and have nothing to fish for....... then why did we pay it? We have nothing to fish for.
Our tax money pays for this wrong science. Now, government wants more money from us to pay for more wrong science. Thats two. Now I give money to www.ssfff.net (gladly I might add) to pay for real and independant science. So, now I HAVE to pay twice for bad information against my will and I willingly try to reverse that with a donation to www.ssfff.net.
If you freshwater fish you pay a fee. But I think I know why. We have the Pequest and Hackettstown Hacheries. They grow the fish that gets stocked in our lakes and rivers. Correct me if I am wrong. But I have seen those trucks dump trout in the North Branch, South Branch and Musconnetcong Rivers. I spend more time than most at the NJ Shore. I have yet to see a truck dumping Black Sea Bass, Summer Flounder and or Blackfish in our saltwater areas. And isn't the Hook area losing a fishing access area? Doesn't this sound like the OBX to you?
Did you see the damage at the AH Marina from this storm? Would a saltwater fishing license pay to repair? No, our tax money will pay for it.
Delaware has a saltwater license. Now lets pretend its September 13, 2010. No sea bass. But wait, I paid my fee, the boats paid there fee.......... We still have fluke to fish for. Then in late September, we can fish for TEN blackfish at 14 inches. We are going to be ok. Not great, but we will be ok. Not heard of access closures, unless I am wrong. So things are not great, but ok. In New Jersey? Things are terrible. September 13 2010 is not going to be a good day in NJ. At least on Long Beach Island.
So, the bottom line is. Give me something to fish for and I will pay for my own if I have to. Only if I have to.
Sorry I went on like this but thank you for reading.
-
t^
I have yet to see a truck dumping Black Sea Bass, Summer Flounder and or Blackfish in our saltwater areas.
-
GAF I too am against a njsl, maybe not for the same reasons as yourself but still against. I look at Florida as a shining spot for SWL and Ny as what can go wrong. It was Capt T B that informed me as to why a SWL is not right for Nj at this time and I now support his reasons and point more than the day I first heard them. I read in your post that you mention party boats. I was some what suprised when I first heard that the CapeMay Party and Charter Boat Assosiation supports a NJSWL. Hopfully Capt TB can share some insight on this
-
THE COST OF NOT HAVING A
SALT WATER FISHING LICENSE
TO THE PEOPLE OF NEW JERSEY AND THE SALT WATER FISHERMEN OF NEW JERSEY
150 Million in federal stimulus money
7 Salt water hatcheries
3,129 immediate construction jobs benefiting local economies near hatchery sites.
169 permanent green jobs in the form of biologists and other hatchery personnel.
Millions of dollars of New Jersey’s fair share of the Federal excise tax return.
40 million dollars annually in license fees to enhance New Jersey salt water fishing
Millions in lost tourist dollars
Well if you ask me its just another way the goverment controls our so called "frredom"
Sounds like the politicians need rasie's,bonuses and vacation's smk so why not screw the working man. Hey Administrators we need a middlefinger expressions icon cause the dude and his story deserve two of them.
-
(http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/smiliesadd1/dead_horse.gif)
hhppy hhppy hhppy hhppy rofla rofla rofla rofla
-
o@ You did not just rehash this old thread! rgmn
-
Oh yes he did! hhppy
-
I was just looking around the site and reading the old posts when i happen to come across this one..
Glad i wasnt a member then cause i wood of told this ********* **** ****** ****** **8 off and then i would of been removed. chrz
-
Here we go again... rgmn fcp rgmn
-
;D thud
-
No No i swear TT^ hhppy
-
Bring this up again and it's... (http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/e/bigun.gif)
-
Bring this up again and it's... (http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/e/bigun.gif)
slt
-
TT^